Spitfire & Hurricane flight model & engine performance thread. (1.09 patch)

[MadTommy]

I thought we could do with a thread to discuss the changes & way things work now with the 1.09 patch. I've copied some peoples observations for other threads.

PLEASE POST YOUR OBSERVATIONS

I'll start with the pilot notes for Merlin XII engine as a reference. (thanks to ATAG_Snapper)

_________________________________

I tried a climb in the Spit2a and had these results:

Climbing at 7lb boost, 2,850rpm, IAS ~155, rad half open.
Temp gauges all within limits when at 17,000ft my rpm started fluctuating wildly, causing cockpit shake. I was unable to control my rpm.
Oil = 85, Water = 100.

Only way i could stop the shaking was sub 2,100 rpm & sub 4 lb boost.. managed to get to 19,000ft but could not maintain a climb..

These observations and been confirmed by others.

_________________________________

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

results for 2a at 9 lbs/2850 rpms/50% rad -- opened to 100% as oil reached 97/glycol 120, speed 185 mph IAS. Reached 19,600 with fluctuating rpms & boost -- could not climb above 20K: aborted climb. Engine undamaged - flew normally at lower alt.

Sea level run: 270 IAS 9 lbs/3000/35% rad
280 IAS 11 lbs/3000/35% rad

_________________________________

Originally Posted by pstyle

very difficult to operate red aircraft above 19k ft. you need to keep rpm at maximum, and lower boost sequentially until almost as a standstill.
Highest I could get 1a100 to was 22,500ft.
Highest I could get 2a to was 19k ft.

Hurricane takes about 20 minutes to start. Needs water temp at 45 degrees. (can they not just spawn already warmed up?)

_________________________________

I've noticed the Merlin likes to 'conk out' if you reduce throttle & therefore rpm too much. I had this happen couple times while taxing & coming into approach finals.

_________________________________

Lets build up a good picture how how to get the best out of the British fighters and feedback to the Dev team as what needs addressing before the patch goes to Steam.

[Kurfürst]

I took the Spit 100 to a ride.

- it seemed to me that it still not hitting 100 octane performance, still 280 mphish, even with boost and +12
- breaking the aircraft in dive is not possible with elevator only, only if trim is used to assist
-roll rate at high speed seems to have been reduced (which is correct no measurements yet)

[trademe900]

it's unbelievable, they are actually very slightly slower now would you believe!

100 octane at sea level:

hurri 255/275mph

spit 260/280mph

still hand grenades too.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I'm finding it difficult to adequately phrase a response to all of the threads relating to this latest patch without incurring a further infraction of forum rules.

When the Blenheim was deemed 'unflyable', I listened, studied, flew to destruction, then made tutorial videos. I hope I got people flying, and restored some faith.

When people were having problems navigating and understanding the course setter and gyro in the RAF planes, I listened, studied, flew in the wrong direction, flew in the right direction, then made tutorial videos. I hope I got people steering straight, and restored some faith.

When the 100oct Spit was deemed 'unflyable', I listened, studied, flew to destruction, and made more tutorial videos. I hope I got people flying, and restored some faith.

Now I have little faith left myself.

[Kwiatek]

I dont belive that they are not able to make accurate performacne and FM of these planes.

It was even possiblie to do in old IL2 - i mean maxiumum speed, climb rate, roll rate and turn rate with not such problem. I know beacuse i for some time i was making FM tunings and mods for IL2.

I just dont belive they cant do it for CLoD.

Give me paramaters and FM code and i would do it for 2-3 weeks.

[NZtyphoon]

+ 1000
I'm getting the same results as MadTommy and trademe900 - absolutely ridiculous that this has not been sorted. My thanks to Kwiatek and ATAG_Dutch for their hard work, but I too have lost faith in whatever process have led to this cock-up.

[Kurfürst]

Actual Flight test results with Spitfire II with 100 octane fuel:

547 km/h at 5000 m altitude (339 mph at 16 400 feet)
460 kmh/ at 0 m altitude (285 mph at 0 feet)

[phoenix1963]

I now get strange engine shaking at power settings between 2-4 lbs boost at 11,000 ft in a Spit 1a 100 octane.

It's almost as if the initial release mixture mess is back again. Sean (IvanK) has recently made it abundantly clear to them that mixture was auto-rich with altitude.

Maybe they just can't believe all WW2 fighters were not like Soviet ones!

56RAF_phoenix

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Actual Flight test results with Spitfire II with 100 octane fuel:

547 km/h at 5000 m altitude (339 mph at 16 400 feet)
460 kmh/ at 0 m altitude (285 mph at 0 feet)

So we're gonna believe a German flight test cause 'cause Kurfurst likes it...that's funny. What's even funnier is it describes the Spitfire II as using a Merlin III

[klem]

Actual results in attached file with jpg of results for max speeds and climb for Spitfire MkIa/100oct.

This Spitfire seems to have closed about 50% of the gap to historical data, a similar upward tweak on top might do the trick. Generally speaking it is around 93%-95% of the A&AEE level speed results but only achieving about 65%-70% of the A&AEE climb results. NOTE these climb tests, including A&AEE, are with BCO off.

Template is attached and up to date for anyone wanting to test other aircraft. It would be good to see the 109s done this way for comparison by someone who knows how to fly them. Its easy, just fly accurately and the data is collected and also calculated to Standard Day performance. Instructions are included in zip file.

You can do Speed, Climb and Turn tests and as the ouput data is wide-ranging perhaps many other tests too. You can test many aircraft by just copying over the .bak mission file as Performance.mis. There is an aircraft at every 1000 feet (30 of them) for level speed at altitudes. You can create more missions for other aircraft. All aircraft are available at various bases. Be sure to edit the output file path to suit your PC (see instructions).

EDIT1: More data obtained. Drops off (dies) above 20,000 ft and it only flew up there because I set it there in the FMB. See thumbnail. It is impossible to maintain any kind of speed at 24,000 ft, the plot at 24k is just a representation as it was still slowly falling as was altitude. My climb test, see Edit2, began to fall apart above 18,000 feet.

EEEEK!! PLease ignore the label "CoD TAS at 2650 rpm", its a mistake, there is no curve for it.

EDIT2: Climb test jpg added. Time to 18,000 ft 10 mins instead of 6.7mins. R.O.C and therefore Time to Height fall away above 5,000 feet when tracking the A&AEE RPM/Airspeed test.

EDIT3: Aircraft fuelled to A&AEE test weight 6050lbs (98% CoD fuel).

EDIT4: Sorry I forgot my sources.
Climb:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html
"CLIMBING TRIALS"
Speed:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html
"Spitfire MkI vs Me109E Level Speed Performance"
EDIT5: Added Turning tests and up to date zip file
Turning Test sources:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit109turn.gif
Turn rate well below historical data and Radius of Turn too high.
Possibly related to the climb test problems.