oleg, you better hurry, RoF is releasing a ww-2 sim next

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by flyingbullseye

the other pirates that actually do fly will have to shut their piehole about stealing the sim or get expelled by the community.

Flyingbullseye

In the IL-2 community, they seem to be welcomed and adored for breaking in to the code...I have alway's taken a strong stance against such activity

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Hi all. Ok, @Feurfalke "Oleg had the chance to play the game before or shortly after it was released in Russia in May. Mid-June US-customers could get a limited number of copies, but sales reached their high not before the last week in June. European customers will get their chance end of July in an English version and End of August the earliest in the localized versions.

So if even more people will give their reviews in August, that is not because these "little soldiers are in agreement" then, but because most of us will take that long to take a personal look at the game and not make a judgment based on second hand information."

That is fair comment Feurfalke, even if by his own admission he didn't play it too long (4 hours) his observations were correct. Mind you, it doesn't take a genius to work out (certainly not one myself lol ). I started playing it on the 29th of June Feurfalke, I was one of the first non-beta testers in Europe to get it delivered from the states......I have noted many things that are wrong with it, as have others. My point is to those who are bashing it, (not saying you are mate) give it more time. All human beings make mistakes, it is indeed "human to err". Game developers are no exception. Unless these detractors come from the planet Krypton, and walk around with a big 'S' on their chests, I'm guessing they have at sometime in a professional capacity too

I get tired of repeating myself to be honest, I haven't got the strength anymore lol. If people don't like it, fine. I people do, great. People who do not like it who haven't even played it bemuse me, but they can have their (somewhat uninformed, like planes will cost "25 bucks each") say too. There is no "war" between SOW and ROF, they are not rivals and there is no need to take any "side". Those who got ROF will undoubtedly get SOW too.

ElAurens, I cannot disagree with any of your criticisms, you are right. I'm just saying give them a chance, and have some patience, maybe things will turn out OK. I know how infuriating a lot of the shortcomings are, tell me about it lol. But I believe we will know better in maybe 6 months, I personally think it will improve a lot. God knows, it needs to. But then for me, the glass is always half full, just the way I am, but of course everybody is different!

My Ha'penny. Peace to all

[flyingbullseye]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

In the IL-2 community, they seem to be welcomed and adored for breaking in to the code...I have alway's taken a strong stance against such activity

I'm not going to get sucked into a debate about the mods, however you don't know for a fact that all have pirated the sim. My bet is very little. There is a difference however fine in anyone's eyes, between pirating a game (stealing) and moding a game that has been purchased, hacked or there otherwise.

Flyingbullseye

[Blackdog_kt]

If modding was the same as cheating there wouldn't be so many modded servers attracting some of the top fliers in the community. If modding was so bad, Oleg wouldn't work to integrate modding support in SoW and he wouldn't hand-pick some of the most talented modders to help him with SoW (his words, not mine, in the simHQ interview again).

For me, the distinction is very simple. The process of modding was a dangerous path, but the results were positive for the most part. I no longer have to fly a Me109E over the Gulf of Finland against Spit MkVs and pretend i'm over the channel fighting against Spit MkIs. I can fly over a map that's the real channel (ok it's scaled down a bit but still it's better than Finland) and see the correct aircraft types around me.

A lot of people who stopped flying IL2 some years ago, finally went out and bought 1946 just for this and got back in the game. Because, no matter how good the graphics, FM or DM, what matters the most in the end is having the tools to recreate as many scenarios and tactical possibilities as possible. That's why modded servers are more popular, you can do things on them that can't be done on the stock ones. I have seen formations of heavy bombers with fighter cover, flying the correct mission profile and using tactics as accurate as can be in a computer game, and all were flown by real human pilots that i had to outsmart to stop them from reaching their targets.

That's the big selling point for any sim really, the ability to recreate more than just the aircraft. That's why sims with just one flyable have become classics, like Falcon4 and Black Shark, that's why a lot of people think RoF is incomplete and that's why the mods are popular. No matter how good your FM is, if there's not a sufficiently well done rendition of the war around the player you're simply flying an FSX clone and not a combat sim. Of course that's a matter of taste, many people are happy with the FM/DM alone, but there's also a lot who enjoy seeing the entire theater of war in motion.

I'm really happy that Oleg's team is trying to go the traditional route and give us something like that, an experience that will be as complete as our processing power allows and maybe even more than that, right from the box.

[virre89]

Originally Posted by flyingbullseye

I'm not going to get sucked into a debate about the mods, however you don't know for a fact that all have pirated the sim. My bet is very little. There is a difference however fine in anyone's eyes, between pirating a game (stealing) and moding a game that has been purchased, hacked or there otherwise.

Flyingbullseye

One thing is for sure, BoB will have some sort of anti piracy protection , wither it will be regular cd-key protection and check vs master servers for online play we'll see soon enough. (that's how most games does it)

Vanilla IL2 doesn't even require CD-Key and it's safe to assume it's been pirated a lot especially on later years, if the game would've been released (stock version) 2005+ i doubt Oleg would've had such a success.

Piracy has escalated a lot the last 5 years.. SoW will not ignore that..

[flyingbullseye]

+1.

Originally Posted by virre89

Piracy has escalated a lot the last 5 years.. SoW will not ignore that..

Lets hope not.

Flyingbullseye

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Chivas

We never resolved anything in earlier posts.
In Canada I paid these amounts when the sims were released, not after they were in the bargain bin.

FSX Deluxe over $60 Canadian
OFF $50
IL-2 well over $50 for most installments ( IL-2, AEP, Pacific, FB, PE-2, IL-2 1946 )
CFS again well over $50 each for CFS1,2,3
EAW can't remember
ROWANs Battle of Britain over $50
BOB WOV over $50
ROF ......$39 Canadian is hardly full price.

Most of these sims were ok, but IMHO only two of them have a decent feel of flight and one of them is ROF.

your being deliberately misleading there

ncix.com is the only one that i can see selling RoF for the 39.99$. you keep quoting them so ademently as a point of comparison as if this is a valid comparison which is valid in most retail locations, BUT
- they do not include local sales taxes in those quoted prices (which many other websites do) and that will add about 10%,
- AND their shipping cost of 10$ is about double what the other stores quote (even if mailed inside the same state the ncix.com store is in) .
- by the looks of the product content they are not really a significant games retailer or flightsim supplier at all, and many of the major titles they dont carry (it is mainly pc hardware they sell), and i see many of the big current games are not on their list either.

so if that is your great claim to RoF's cheapness, bollocks !!

if you look at the main game retailers websites that do carry a range of flightsim products (as for ex listed in the recommended retailers list in this recent simhq thread http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...s/2738493.html ) then you will find RoF is exactly prices as i already quoted to you before, SAME price as other normal "full" products or other major flightsims

and instead of going by some of the fantasy numbers you came up with from your dimming memory, lets just quote the normal prices at some of the major websites listed in the officially recommended suppliers that provide a comparison with the other FULL flightsim products they stock, and which are sold at NORMAL full retail prices

have a look at these prices from the RoF officially recommended sales point in north america (http://www.fspilotshop.com/index.php...a5cd2c1a262cc3)

Aerostudios - ATC Simulator "Pro Edition" $60.00

Aerostudios - ATC Simulator "Standard Edition" $40.00

Condor: The Competition Soaring Sim $49.95

DCS: Black Shark $49.95

Falcon 4: Allied Force $29.95

Flight Simulator X (FSX) Gold Edition $39.95

Flyboys Squadron $29.99

PRE-Flight Standard Edition $24.95

PRE-Flight Super Helicopter Edition $39.95

Rise of Flight: The First Great Air War $44.95

Warbirds 2008 $19.95

Wilco - Tower Simulator $40.00

Wilco - Tower Simulator Download $34.95

X-Plane 9 (PC) $49.95

if you can come up with one of the major legitimate flightsim software suppliers (that carries the normal full range of flightsim software products and games), which sells RoF at something like 30% of what they ask for fsX, lockon, black shark, Xplane, etc..., then i will send virre89 some free zit cream to his home address. but as you well know already, your argument doesnt hold up, its basically sold at full price, just like some of the other flightsims it is trying to compete with

Originally Posted by Chivas

There's nobody in these forms saying the sim perfect and ignoring the problems

wow, what a change of tune from the usual coolaid fueled chant that its fanboys sing on all the main forums, why dont you try and go there and mention just a few of its GLARING problems there and see what happens

Originally Posted by Chivas

Most everyone flying the sim, know its a WIP, and many are enjoying what content there is, understanding that the issues and content are being worked on.

bollocks, bollocks and more bollocks !!

it doesnt say that on the retail box or at retail websites, it doesnt give that as a blatant warning on the official RoF website, AND reviewers/previewers are not being told to advertise this and forewarn potential customers either

now that RoF is out "in the west" however the multiple problems it has are so obvious to any normal customer that with the orchestra of loud complaints they simply cant pretend anymore this is a complete game with the set of normal features you'd expect from any other software company, what is worse is that many of its problems and limitations have been DELIBERATELY added to try and squeeze more money out of customers with complete disregard of basic features and functions normally expected !

YOU might not mind that, and i am not here to tell you what YOU should like or not like, or spend your money on, but to now pretend people were forewarned about its problems is ridiculous. neither does it say at the entrance to their forums "this is a beta project only, thx for sending us your money to support us in the believe we will be able to resolve most of the main problems it currently has, and that we will give you a normal set of features and functions AND that we will unlock the game for you if our company flops"

to now pretend they have been open and forthcoming is silly, and neither are they in a grate haste to fix those main issues.

Originally Posted by Chivas

Will they be just adding paid content and not fixing bugs, not likely,

wrong again, they are already selling addon items they made, in my book that shouldnt be the case untill some of the major problems are resolved. this shows you clearly where their priorities lie, just in case you were not able to spot it earlier

Originally Posted by Chivas

as the people building the sim are enthusiasts not bean counters

yes there are some good aspects of RoF, but that doesnt excuse its problems or the flawed sales model they have implemented. would you accept it if all future games were in the same crap status when you bought them ? i doubt it, you'd be the first one yelling your lungs out and crying foul.

Originally Posted by Chivas

The only thing your right about is ROF is not a full game, but everyone knows that.

nonsense

Originally Posted by Chivas

What you can't seem to grasp is this game is a Work in Progress, released early to generate funds, and the 39 dollar price tag reflects that. As a work in progress you can expect bugs and some missing content will be added for free. Of course there will be paid content as well, how else do expect them to stay in business. We will likely pay as much for this sim series as we paid for other flight sim series depending on ROF's quality and longevity. This sim could generate a sustainable business or fail based the quality of the work. The existing ROF WIP is very good base to build on, and most simmers realize what it is.

and of you go again pretending RoF is so much cheaper then normal full games, which it clearly isnt, and the lame attempt at justification that everybody is forewarned about how flawed and beta it is, which isnt the case either

Originally Posted by Chivas

Could the sim fail and you are left with nothing, yes, but the more likely scenario... the DRM would be lifted, and the community would work on the sim.

you dont know that chivas, and there are already examples where exactly that happened, the company failed and shut down their servers, leaving everybody with NOTHING. if it was that simple to unlock i am sure some clever 12yo with a hex editor would have already done it by now. since you cant guarantee it will be unlocked, nor have some inside line to the developers, pretending it will be eventually unlocked is just another attempt of again putting a rosy spin on it. if the company is in financial trouble, which they already are right from the start by their own admittance, i doubt they will spend more of their money on unlocking the game and removing the restrictions they previously deliberately imposed