IL2 and Sound Modding

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by stalkervision

Encrypted... The "encription" everyone always raves about and points to as some kind of proof oleg never wanted the game tampered with turns out was about as secure as a walmart suitcase lock...

I'll buy that lock anytime it took 5 years to break.....

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Ok, to prove that I'm not trying to win for one side or the other, simply to correct falshoods and call for sanity; the modders need to stop denying that oleg does not want the mods. I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes out and I don't think oleg would hate every mod to come out, but to say that it's ok because the ecryption was easy to break is just as retarded as suggesting that every mod user is a cheat.

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by Beowulf

I'll buy that lock anytime it took 5 years to break.....

I believe it was because people were truly expecting it to be a lot more difficult then it really was and tried all kinds of compllicated solutions on it before they tried the most simple ones. Foolish people, you always try the easiest stuff first...

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

Ok, to prove that I'm not trying to win for one side or the other, simply to correct falshoods and call for sanity; the modders need to stop denying that oleg does not want the mods. I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes out and I don't think oleg would hate every mod to come out, but to say that it's ok because the ecryption was easy to break is just as retarded as suggesting that every mod user is a cheat.

No one is saying that. Many of you guys just think Il-2 is so worth it's weight in gold that you inflated it's value a million times over is all. Oleg was already working on another sim engine even as his team was finishing this one up. If you all hadn't just kept demanding more and more from this one all the time I am sure SOW would have been out by now...

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by jasonbirder

Obviously there are strong feelings raised by creation of new Mods for IL2, and the tiny but vociferous minority of online gamers feel the need to passionately support their belief in the primacy of an unmodified stock version of the game

A clear case who is making the issue an offline vs online then.Offline/online gaming is not connected to the obvious case which is breaking into the code.Whoever does that without developpers` agreement is guilty of offending his personal laws as you only buy the license to use the game.Saying that only online pilots oppose the mods is simply a lie which fits your disinformation campaign.It is so easy to demonise anyone who really cares for the game or simply respects Oleg Maddox`s personal laws.There has been some threads on the ubi boards which features also offliners opposing the mods.

…Unfortunately though, they also feel the need to impose that belief on the large numbers of people that want to utilise the new additions to the game…as for them its not enough that they wish to remain with stock IL2 installations…they feel the need to ensure everybody else only utilises a stock IL2 installation for online compatibility.

Sorry, a fact should never called a belief.My tools in my replies are facts you can`t deny.You can only fog them with splitting hair methods in hoping that the majority will intimidate those who respect the creator and hold a strong desire in integrating the whole IL2 community.

Its Illegal

This argument centres upon the fact that modifying the software is a breach of the EULA – notwithstanding the fact that the EULA is a commercial document intended to protect software publishers from financial loss through the reproduction and modification of their software in a commercial marketplace, ignoring the fact that there has never been a single instance of a software publisher taking a single user to court for modifying software they have purchased legitimately, not withstanding the fact that whole communities have grown up dedicated to modifying software for third party use…But it’s a big stick to beat the modding community with because then we can be accused of being Criminals!

Dura lex,sed lex as they say.If your country respects the international agreements than the EULA is a part of it.If you are a citizen of such a country then you are obliged to repect the law rightfully accepted and enforced by your government.The people who make the mods fit in the same cathegory as the hackers who cracked the code.An illegal addition to the game presents no legal value and offends developper`s laws.

This is not a case of crossing on the red light.This is a case of stealing one`s intellectual property.A clear case that is not debatable.

Well for starters there is a big question mark over whether any EULA is enforceable in law…it breaches standard contract law in that you are not made aware of the conditions of purchase until after you have purchased the software – and typically you will have no re-dress because most computer games retailers will not refund money on a purchased product once it has been opened (to prevent piracy). Meaning that you the purchaser were coerced into agreeing to the EULA.

You ,as a citizen of a country that has agreed to respect and enforce the law, are obliged to proceed by the letter of law.Decision whether some law is right or wrong does not belong to you.There are special bodies in every country that decide.As a citizen that is obliged to follow the law you can sue the law as against human/citizen laws and your rightful bodies will decide accordingly.

Secondly the EULA refers to

Which means that movie makers, mission builders, skinners etc etc are all in breach of the EULA, something that I think we’ll all agree is ridiculous – no-one is going to be considered as breaching the law by creating a third party campaign and distributing it nor releasing a populated map template and releasing it…so why would it be considered illegal to create a retextured map and release it for example? The EULA makes no reference to what is considered acceptable and not acceptable in this context…simply because it was never written with the intent of preventing third party modification of legally purchased software…it was written to prevent commercial abuse, piracy and plagiarism!

There is a big difference.The developper does not oppose creating missions/campaigns/skins/3rd party utilities.Also, since a long time those utilities have been hosted by the UBI site meaning that they agree on suhc policy.The same with the nocd crack that you kiddies have been unable to prove.Targ posted the link to the UBI site which hosts the nocd crack.That means that the developper as much as the producer agrees on hosting and apreading all those utilities.

Besides UBI the software publisher has a very pro-modding attitude towards the games it publishes – look at the Mod sections and discussions that exist within the official communities for Sims like LOMAC and Silent Hunter III & IV. If the publisher isn’t opposed to us modifying its software…then who else is there to tell us what we are doing is wrong?

I`ve had a good laugh over this.

Simple. The above games have not been modified through cracking the code and moreover releasing it to the public.The above games are though to be open for modding from the start.That puts them in a whole different cathegory than IL2 Sturmovik : 1946.You are completely off the base concluding that UBI is all for a modding section for IL2.

Go ahead and give it a go lol

Its Immoral

Ignoring the fact that its ridiculous to consider what I do with my copy of Il2 in the comfort of my own home a morality issue…I mean, if I kick my dog, hit my wife, steal my neighbours milk from his doorstep…that’s immoral, I really don’t consider installing an illuminated gun sight reticule a moral dilemma!

Sorry,too much simplyfing here.I can`t even begin to laugh at your shortsightness and complete lack of perception of your doings.
Read my above replies 100 times,maybe you can understand it then.

If modification of the software was considered immoral where was the hue and cry from the community when people were discussing the release of a no CD hack? Or ways of bypassing the securom copy protection on the initial Pe2 release? In fact people were tripping over themselves to find a way round these issues…So much for morality!

See above.You can contact Targ too.

The morality issue is your personal case.If you spit in Oleg Maddox`s face then you`re simply an asshole.He worked on the sim for 5 years,he added tons of stuff for free.He also wanted to give the game to closed modder community.I hope I`m clear enough for you.

Its an Insult to Oleg

Well surely not as much as one as the times again and again he has been accused of Pro-German or Pro-Russian bias! Wasn’t that the reason he stopped visiting and posting at the Official UBI forums?

Completely off base here.I could call Oleg an idiot and he would ignore it or not,depends on him.That is however complely different from offending his personal laws, breaking into his creation without his agreement lastly telling that this all is his fault.I`d think that it is so clear to understand that I keep having doubts whether you know that you`re making an idiot out of yourself here.

Mod users are cheaters

Well as far as I can see none of the Mods released so far are designed to create, uber planes, uber weapons and uber DMs, so I think there is far too much concern over this issue.

The only opinion that counts in this case is the developper`s.He decides what is done with his creation.He said that he does not agree on it.He has voiced his opinion on the closed code concept many times before.

The Mods are intended for use by offliners anyway – and most of the major servers have put in place a check value to ensure that the servers cannot be joined by users of the Mod.

Good intentions go looong way and end up stirring much BS.Mods are easily usable also online.CRT=2 does not work.
But I know you don`t like such facts.

Besides Online cheating is an issue for online players…cheating and bad sportsmanship has existed in many forms for a long time…Flaps on a Slider, Prnt Scrn, Disconnecting, Team Killing, Shoulder Shooting, Kill Stealing etc etc…Its not something Offline players should concern themselves with…Its something for the Online community to police themselves with strong server rules and admin.

Great, before it was all good.Then someone decides to crack the code and release it to a public of half intelligent kids who,a s this thread shows, would do anything just to suit their endless needs.The mod thing is more of "those who are able to enjoy the vanilla game (300 flyables sic!!!) vs those who don`t knon how to find a way to have fun with this game".
You would think that in the past, 50 flyables was enough, then 100, then 300 in the end.But nope, kiddies want more and, as long as the Police don`t knock at their door, happily spit in the face of it`s creator.

Besides, a changed FM/DM is a whole new calibre of cheat, really not comparable with those listed.As long as players had equal FM/DM, everything else was a small glitch.

Oh yeah and you don`t give a @@@@ too either. Crack the code, kill online community and online play and let them deal with it.No punkbuster apps with it, just "online players should deal with it" quote.
Thanks!

Nothing Offline players do or don’t do is going to affect what happens in the major hyperlobby servers is it?

Correction, it affects everyone.

Besides, I cannot understand why anyone would want to make the game easier for themselves anyway…surely the fun comes from the challenge! (In fact I’d love to see the Mod making planes more difficult to handle – giving more realistic quantities of Torque and making undercarriages more fragile for example) But then I’m interested in the whole combat flight simulation experience – dogfighting and air to air kills are only a small part of it for me personally – which is why I welcome something that increases immersion like the Sound Mod.

Great, you`re such a sport. Let`s make a deal.You pay me 10000 buck for every single case of online cheating if you`re so sure about it.

Development of Mods destroys a flight sim

The truth is, nearly all popular Flight Simulators have been heavily modified by third part communities and in every instance it has improved the game, extended its usable life and created a great deal of interest and enthusiasm amongst the users…Look at the evidence
Falcon 4 – heavily modded and yet a game that was released in 1999 is still going strong today, EAW modded to within an inch of its life and then some…and yet was by far the most popular World War 2 flight sim prior to the release of IL2, Janes F/A18 – the demise of Janes meant the game was dropped almost straight after release…but hard work by a dedicated community (Team Super Hornet) has created a game far beyond what was initially released…New theatres, new graphics, Track IR functionality, new cockpits etc etc. LOMAC – look at some of the fantastic mods that are being released for that game at the moment. Enemy Engaged! Probably the most dedicated modding community of all – have created a Sim that is so good that the modded EECH is far better than the newly published EECH2! So if none of these flight simulators have been destroyed by user mods…then why should IL2 be?

Apples and oranges, as in every pro modding post.Completely off base, ignoring the past experiences with killing online play in CFS,ignoring all the differences between listed games and IL2.Wothless drivel aimed to misinform folks.


Well?Iguess that`s it then?All your arguments out with the trash.

[stalkervision]

If you guys are all hopped up on defending codes try this one. Means as much as your silly rational..

http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday.../index-utc.php

people and companies break manafacture's codes all the time. If it was so illegal to modify the game the code wouldn't even have to exist now would it? Obviously the software engine is none to special either because it was never patented that I know of..

a perfect example is performance and aftermarket car part business as I have pointed out before. These software programs truly cost a mint to develop yet not one car company says squat about them being broke and modified and even sold. I wonder why not? Why because they didn't have a super legal EULA on it of course!

[BSS_Sniper]

Stalker, you really do no real good to your cause. Your replies have zero insight and are that of a teenager.

The main concern is that some of these mods will find their way into online gaming. As I stated before, the sounds and flyable AI aircraft may not impose any advantage, however, when someone has 6 DOF or removed parts from a cockpit so they can see better and the others can't, that is a cheat.

It can't get any more simple than that. I could compare it to counterstrike and people using hack/mods to see through walls. It is NO different.

[BSS_Sniper]

Maybe this will help. From the man who made the game.

Oleg Maddox



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 18


PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Abbeville-Boy wrote:
"Mr. Maddox
Could you state your feeling on the hack mod issue. i and others would like to know your thought's on this and what it means for the future"


I personally hate any hack that may damage fair online gameplay.



http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/viewtop...=191&start=405

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by BSS_Sniper

Stalker, you really do no real good to your cause. Your replies have zero insight and are that of a teenager.

The main concern is that some of these mods will find their way into online gaming. As I stated before, the sounds and flyable AI aircraft may not impose any advantage, however, when someone has 6 DOF or removed parts from a cockpit so they can see better and the others can't, that is a cheat.

It can't get any more simple than that. I could compare it to counterstrike and people using hack/mods to see through walls. It is NO different.

Actually I was thinking exactly the very same thing about your post the only difference is I'm the one who is right..

[BSS_Sniper]

Originally Posted by stalkervision

Actually I was thinking exactly the very same thing about your post the only difference is I am the one that is right..

I can tell, you keep referring to cars in a sim forum. Way to go brains. lol No one really takes you seriously. You lack any form of maturity in anything you type in here.