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#81
03-02-2011, 05:51 AM
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Thanks Osprey and Fruitbat for sharing that data. I have Galland's book too, and agree - he doesn't speak much at all about subtypes during this period. I see this alot in the pilot biographies I have. Looked through Gunther Rall's also, finding nothing about aircraft details during this period.
I just re-read the section from Caldwell's book that I referenced earlier. I made a significant error in applying the quote from the book. The comment about E-1's concerned the October period. I stand corrected. I'll share a few paragraphs here for completeness. "The Schlageter fighters found themselves back at their permanent bases on the Rhine, where from 26 June to 20 July they mounted guard against the minor threat posed by RAF Bomber Command. All the Geschwader's aircraft were fitted with seat and back armor before the return to combat. Attempts to implement an engine-mounted cannon in the Bf 109 were temporarily abandoned, and the model that was to carry it, the Bf 109E-3 was replaced on Messerschmitt's production lines by the E-4. The MG FF/M cannon, originally designed for engine mounting, had a higher rate of fire than the MG/FF, and supplanted the earlier cannon in the wings of the E-4. Another standard feature of the E-4 was an armored windshield. Another significant variant, the Bf 109E-4/N, was an answer to the Jagdwaffe pilots' complaints of poor high-altitude performance. This model had a modified engine, the DB 601N, with an increase in engine compression ratio from 6.9 to 8.2, boosting maximum horsepower to 1175. There was a cost for this improvement-96 octane fuel was required in the new engine instead of the standard 87 octane. High-octane fuel was always in short supply in Germany, and the E-4/N was given a restricted production run. JG 26 was one of the few Geschwader to receive thsi model. According to the Luftwaffe's aircraft loss returns, JG 26 fought the Battle of Britain with E-1's, E-4,s and E-4/N's. The lightly armed E-1 was still being flown by some of the enlisted pilots in late October." Thanks again for the info-good discussion. S! Gunny 
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#82
03-02-2011, 06:15 AM
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i guess we all here have the same opinion: That the CoD 109 , at least at release, will be the E-3 is 'strange'. It was there and had action but was by far not the most common variant. E-1 and E-4 would have been the much more logical choice. And perhaps more interesting for a Luftwaffe fighter campaign. First you have to fly the E-1 and later get the upgrade to the canon plane. Even more strange is that 1C already have the MG-FF/M modelled for the Bf110C-4 & -7 ?!?! my, very personal, wishlist for the 109 in CoD would have been: E-1 & -/B with DB601A-1 old canopy , no headarmour E-3 & -/B with DB601A-1 old canopy , no headarmour E-4 & -/B with DB601Aa with newer canopy and headarmour E-4/N with DB601N with newer canopy and headarmour would have been from plane to plane a nice improvemnt in a pilotcareer. And for online, COOP designers have no proplems to restrict the numbers  , and im actually sure that Dogfight designers will also be able to limit planenumbers and weapons.But ok, the axis side will get a lot (in comparison to the RAF) of flyable bombers  and dont forgett , there will still be the mighty G.50 
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#83
03-02-2011, 06:31 AM
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Thanks!
Great list. Understand all. S! Gunny
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#84
03-02-2011, 08:12 AM
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maybe they left something for the payware addons (*wink*)
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#85
03-02-2011, 11:07 AM
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maybe we'll get an E1 later, i hope so, was looking forward to flying it. Last edited by fruitbat; 03-02-2011 at 11:28 AM.
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#86
03-02-2011, 11:47 AM
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Perhaps there will be some very few flyable in a free patch/upgrade. There will be most propably not so many planes for free as in the IL2 past, but i guess Maddox will still release a little amount of his work for free Additional 109s would sure be canditates as not much 3D work (as example E-1: ammocounter in cockpit and some minor work on the wings) would be needed. But in general i more expect some CoD AI planes (and missing ones) in further scenario AdOns. As examples the Wellington flyable in an MTO (espacially early one), the Do17Z in an Moskau 1941/42 scenario. And Bf109E-4 and E-7 would fit in these two. And Maddox is planing to make these AdOns playable for their own or merge them with the others..
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#87
03-03-2011, 08:04 PM
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Sure Gunslinger, nice share (without an argument lol)
If I get around to it i'll put up data on the Spitfire wing designations, but for the record the book is called 'Spitfire, The History' and it really is definitive - everyone interested in WW2 WF air war should have this book (check the reviews, it's all facts, not bias) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spitfire-His.../dp/0946219486 ISBN's 0946219486 978-0946219483
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#88
03-03-2011, 10:10 PM
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OK, I found some references to the wing, it's going to pretty cut up but to summarise:
1. Supermarine specification #462 of 20 Feb 1939 outlined proposals for improvements to the production spitfire...(lists requirements of which)...to fit the aircraft with 2 20mm hispano cannon, if desired alternatives of cannon and mg. In a meeting at Supermarine in Southampton discussed was trial installs of (a)2x20mm...(b) 4x20mm (c) 6x colt browning 50's. Joseph Smith enquired "...if there would be any objection to adapting all 3 installations in such a manner that alternatives of cannon and machine guns could be installed" This suggests that the 'universal wing idea was born according to this spec on this day. There were many other specs too and Supermarine built prototypes for testing at Eastliegh.... 4th June 1941, Supermarine tech report states weights of Spitfire III W3237 auw with A wing 6831lb, with B wing 7020lb and the new C wing (4x20mm) 7445lb (this is the first time I see 'Universal Wing' mentioned) and later it it mentions the dropped 'D' suffix for a 12 browning configuration. Under the section on the mkV it specifically states that the Ministry had a problem with general aircraft designation (MkIII was in trials, MkV to counter the 109F), This was around Feb 1941, and was affecting the ordering spare parts in particular. Thus it was actually the Air Ministry that listed the letter designation according to gun configuration and this was applied by Supermarine. On the subject of types there were planned 3 types for the mkIII's later abandoned but the designation system was adopted for the VIII and IX etc. The 'F' (fighter), 'HF' (high fighter) and 'LF' (low fighter bomber). There were dozens of combinations of Merlin engine and blowers and props which affected performance at different altitudes Hope that helps. Last edited by Osprey; 03-03-2011 at 10:27 PM.
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#90
03-04-2011, 05:13 AM
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Osprey, thanks for the info! Still digesting.......
Fruitbat, no worries - any friend of TOAD's is a friend of mine After I get some time before CoD release - I'd like to come fly 1 v 1 with you and TOAD....All the best.... this was really a good thread.... Man, I can't wait to get in my cockpit - S! Gunny
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