Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Flanker35M]

S!

Osprey, the fighter pilots can judge how a plane behaves, jet or not. Not sure how RAF or others train but here they have to fly against propellor/turbo prop planes to simulate a slower target that still can pose a threat if it gets guns on you even for a short time.

My main point was the plane itself though, be it WW2 or modern plane, it has systems/subsystems and a structure. When you work with them on a daily basis you get a fairly good idea how for example damage would affect the plane or a system. This leads to the DM we have that has oddities, or should we say features, which boils down to the fact our home computer systems simply are not capable of calculating what would happen. Instead we have something like "X happens to Y part commence action Z" or at worst case hitpoint pools on areas. Have even 1 point left and it will not break or affect plane behaviour.

An example. Finns bought from RAF Hurricanes 1939-40. The Brits themselves told during evaluations that planes in service lost 10-20mph from their speed fairly quickly due wear/tear and fatigue, especially those Hurricanes that still had fabric covered wings. Those wings caused problems to Finns as well, they "ballooned" in a dive and at least one plane was lost due the fabric was torn off. So restrictions had to be set for their dive speeds. Just an example.

In game we do not have wear/tear or fatigue that cumulates. Still the same old "Refly with a factory fresh plane". So if this could be modelled in some believeable way then CEM and how you fly would become much more important. Now it is not. Just balls to the walls, fiddle a bit here and there and good to go. Again..a GAME.

I flew red quite a bit in old IL-2 in different occasions. So was not stuck to blue only. Main ride was still the biggest underdog Bf109G-6 Early without the 30mm. Blue pilots are called Luftwhiners, Luftwaffles etc. so Sissyfire will stick

But thanks you for a good reply Osprey, appreciate that

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Osprey, the fighter pilots can judge how a plane behaves, jet or not. Not sure how RAF or others train but here they have to fly against propellor/turbo prop planes to simulate a slower target that still can pose a threat if it gets guns on you even for a short time.
An example. Finns bought from RAF Hurricanes 1939-40. The Brits themselves told during evaluations that planes in service lost 10-20mph from their speed fairly quickly due wear/tear and fatigue, especially those Hurricanes that still had fabric covered wings. Those wings caused problems to Finns as well, they "ballooned" in a dive and at least one plane was lost due the fabric was torn off. So restrictions had to be set for their dive speeds. Just an example.

In game we do not have wear/tear or fatigue that cumulates. Still the same old "Refly with a factory fresh plane". So if this could be modelled in some believeable way then CEM and how you fly would become much more important. Now it is not. Just balls to the walls, fiddle a bit here and there and good to go. Again..a GAME.

Most air forces have Dissimilar Air Combat courses; the NATO air forces, for example have flown several exercises, mostly jet v jet http://www.rtbot.net/dissimilar_air_combat_training
http://www.100squadronassociation.org.uk/history6.html

The turbo-prop Tucanos in the RAF are used for Basic Fast Jet Training -they don't seem to be used to train jet pilots in attacking slower targets;

http://www.raf.mod.uk/currentoperations/training.cfm

All aircraft would have their critical areas, where too much wear and tear, or badly fitted fairings etc could have a drastic effect on achieving maximum performance; one problem with the Spitfire I remember reading about was that as the engine cowlings were constantly removed and replaced, they could be bent slightly out of shape, leaving gaps which could reduce top speed by 15-20 mph. Sometimes rubber hammers were needed just to fit them back in place and secure the Dzus fasteners. The German system in which the engine cowlings used built in stringers to provide strength and structural stability, and strong quick release latches which almost automatically closed gaps to a minimum, was much better from an engineering and maintenance pov. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea of how such factors could be replicated in IL2.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

The simple calculations in this thread trying to prove the entire RAF Fighter Command used the fuel do not leave the RAF with a believable amount of fuel in strategic reserve.

Believable to whom? You?

You have a reserve tank on your own aircraft. So let us say that you are flying along and run out of fuel in the main tank and you're over the sea somewhere. According to your logic you will decide not to switch over and use it because a reserve is a reserve after all, it's not to be used.

I 'believe' that the UK would've used up every drop if they had to. I 'believe' that all engines were converted in the event that Germany invaded and we had to throw the lot at them from the other groups. It wouldn't make sense to keep converting back and forth.

[Osprey]

@Flanker, I try not to use Luftwhiner but it's different because it focus's on a type of person who flies exclusive blue and complains in order to gain game advantage. Kurfurst is a Luftwhiner. Sissyfire is directed at the aircraft ergo the pilots choice of ride. All he need do is have some success in what was a very successful aircraft of the time, and this has no reflection on personality, he need not complain about the enemy ever to gain that tag. This is why it's just a plain insult, because it is not earned or deserved. You say it's because of the 25lber but you apply it to all Spitfires.

You should remember that it was common for German pilots who had been shot down by Hurricanes to claim it was a Spitfire, such was their respect for what was an excellent machine.

[Al Schlageter]

Guys don't let Eugene sidetrack you. This is his SOP to deflect the conversation away from a specific subject, in this case the 16 squadrons that only used 100 fuel during the BoB. Ignore what ever he says until he produces the 16 squadron numbers. Then we can concentrate on his next wrong statement > there wasn't enough 100 octane fuel.

[Blakduk]

This thread has gotten away from the topic that initially drew my attention to it.
On this topic I am not so much interested in how the game's flight models are set up- i'm much more concerned with the distortion of history that has previously won the day.

There is abundant evidence that the RAF Fighter Command was using 100 octane as their standard fuel in early 1940, before the outbreak of the Battle of Britain- that evidence has been obtained by an impressive amount of work by a few posters here on this forum and others. There is no evidence to the contrary, only rumors and misguided beliefs that border on delusions.

With regard to flight models- that is another topic entirely that should be separate from this thread.
BTW- i tend to fly blue a lot lately as people online have figured out how to win flying red and are tending to crowd onto the red bandwagon

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Again, I don't know the answer and neither does anyone else in this thread.

I think we do. We know that stations across the country were equipped with 100 octane including those in Scotland

I am sure the RAF would want data on continuous operational use. That is the whole purpose of operational trials. It would make sense to have some of the 16 squadrons that converted use the fuel continuously.

1940 is nothing to do with operational trials. If you can find anything to support that then please post it. 1940 is about using it in action

The simple calculations in this thread trying to prove the entire RAF Fighter Command used the fuel do not leave the RAF with a believable amount of fuel in strategic reserve.

Again this is rubbish. Using 10,000 tons a month there was more than enough fo Fighter Command and at that rate they had a 2 1/2 year stockpile. Put it another way, do you know any country that had a 2 1/2 year stockpile, of anything.

I am afraid that you continue to put forward nothing more than conspiracy theorys.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Glider

I think we do. We know that stations across the country were equipped with 100 octane including those in Scotland


1940 is nothing to do with operational trials. If you can find anything to support that then please post it. 1940 is about using it in action


Again this is rubbish. Using 10,000 tons a month there was more than enough fo Fighter Command and at that rate they had a 2 1/2 year stockpile. Put it another way, do you know any country that had a 2 1/2 year stockpile, of anything.

I am afraid that you continue to put forward nothing more than conspiracy theorys.

Do you think Crumpp needs to be reminded that Hurricane and Spitfire squadrons of Fighter Command had converted to 100 Octane fuel in February 1940, and several Hurricane squadrons used it operationally during the Battle of France, May 1940? I mean it makes his whole theory about operational trials by 16 selected squadrons throughout the Battle of Britain look a little silly and I'm sorry, I know it's jolly inconvenient for Crumpp, who's built up a resistance to evidence, but sometimes the plain, unvarnished facts have a bad habit of getting in the way of a comfortable delusion.

[king1hw]

All Variants should be made flyable up until the end of Dec25th1940. It would make the game play and mission building more interesting and in my opinion make us all better pilots. Since I have been involved with this sim many keep the advances of tech at bay is ignorant to the facts.

PLEASE add and fix Spits, Hurries and 109 variants and this would end tomorrow. Except it seems that the developer will not listen to this plea. I for one would like to see this sim become the best but all this is pushing people back to il2 1946 Mod either HSFX 5.0.1 or UP3.0 RC4 or 4.11.

We as dedicated servers are looking for help in this matter. A lot of the allied flyers are tired of plane set and servers not offering a competing planes. Also not having a beu and welly or even a defiant is sad. Heck even a MKIIB Hurry could carry a 250lb bomb. Are you afraid that they were 12lb boost and you would have to model it, or because they are 2 stage engines. I for one have reloaded il2 1946 and swore that I would not. I began setting up a server for my squad mates to meet there demands because CloD will not build a solid crowd. AND THEY COULD RIGHT NOW! IMHO

So if any developers read this get on the ball and get CLoD Game I purchased on track which I waited 7years for.

Thanks for listening.

King

[KG26_Alpha]

Due to reported posts


Ok fellas can we please keep the ego's and name calling out of the thread and try to have an adult discussion regarding the topic please.

This is the only warning there will be.

That applies to all of you.

Have fun