Il-2 MODs

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

The burden I think was to change SOW code, so as to not have it fall victim again, as in IL2. They had to rewrite it, to kindof make it "child proof" if you follow my drift. Also 4.09 needed many more man hours to try and stop the leak...a Russian is probably the only one that could read the code

sorry slipball, but this illusive 4.09b1 has been out nearly a year now, as i said earlier(dont ask for a direct quote) oleg said that 4.09 was not top of his agenda, I dont blame the geezer there must be thousands of people in Il2 breathing down his neck for results! . I just dont think mods are all that bad and doesnt neccesserily mean people will cheat. In fact they dont.

[JG52Uther]

Funny,quite a few of those 'rabid anti hackers' appearing in that old thread are now very much using the mods.

This whole thread is useless.It all happened publically a year ago (I know,I have the T-shirt).

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by MD_Wild_Weasel

I just dont think mods are all that bad and doesnt neccesserily mean people will cheat. In fact they dont.

err, computer says wrong Wild Weasel.... human nature dictates if the possibility to cheat exists, it will happen.
besides which... using mods is supporting the hacking of the sim, sorry to say

[Brain32]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Did I say that? You guys are also guilty for all the flames with such reactions, that BS "you are either with us or against us" attitude is not helping anyone

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...

And what is person doing with mods on a server, that publically and very politely announced that it's users do not want mods on the server, that has messages warning about disapproval of mods on the server popping out in the chatbar every few minutes, what?

Originally Posted by Bearcat

MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.

I agree completely, but I ask again what is a presumably honest mod user doing with mods on a server that politely requests no mods?

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....

That appears to be true, because of childs way of thinking(by that I mean honest, naive thinking and general disbelief somebody could do wrong with something that can be used for good) you guys can't think "out of the box" when we talk about cheats...

Here, I will tell you what what I expirienced;
- the most common is invisible plane, bounced with tracers coming out of thin air, my squad buddy saw no plane, other example idiot in invisible bomber spawns on the field and shoots planes around with turrets...
- FM switching a variations to the theme, personally saw a P51 I could easily catch but couldn't outturn or outclimb no matter what, he tied a few of us until we applied anti-Spitfire tactics lol
- not to mention how many people fly with adjusted gunsights, mirrors, 6DOF and cool stuff like that.
As you can notice the above things were obviously made by amateurs, I'm afraid to think what someone good with Java could do...

Also I only responded here because Urufu sugested there are no cheats and we make things up, that's unacceptable.

As for hanging with wrong or right people this comment Bercat you did not need, was rather ruthless thing to say IMO.

[Brain32]

Originally Posted by fly_zo

It's nice to see that Brain32 hasn't lost his edge though .... pozdrav tebi i Kuni

I never lost my edge, you would think my name is Ivica, but it's not
Anyway you know I was never pro or anti mod, I consider myslef one of the "silent majority" the problem is...I rarely stay silent about anything lol

Originally Posted by fly_zo

Anyway , i just stopped to wish you all happy and prosperous New Year ... modders and purists

Thx, Sretna Nova Godina

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That thread shows a lot more than I think you realize. I think everyone here should take the time to read that thread. All 100+ pages of it and compare it to the reality 12+ months later.. Very interesting stuff. That 113 page thread thread went from 11/21/07 to 1/10/08 and pretty much covered just about every argument pro and con on the mods.

Funny enough, main points against the mods stand strong as the facts are very simple and undeniable.

Carguy the " mod supporters", at least the ones here, don't have to deny jack. The history speaks for itself. The work speaks for itself. Look at that thread. Really read the whole thing, including many of your posts, and compare it with the facts of today.. Oh.. that's right.. you cant do that... you quit IL2 when that thread was being made most likely.. because it was the end of the world right?

I`m not one bit surprised that you keep on spilling the same BS. After all, you were one of the first to force the mod support topics into the IL2 forums which led others to follow.
What history?Work?Oh, you mean the numerous quotes from the 1C officials that accept the mods - a blatant cracking of the IL2 code and Maddox intellectual property?

Oh that`s quite right - as far as I`m concerned there aren`t any such quotes, because 1C position on mods stays the same.

And might I repeat the main point - whatever happens to the IL2 code stays in decision of the legitimate decision maker which is Oleg Maddox I believe.
Anything done to damage his intelectual property is wrong, hence the mods are also wrong.

It`s obvious that I don`t have the knowledge of the 2008 year practice with mods because I quit in December 2007.
The rules are clear enough though and did not change. I don`t really need to know anything more.

So basically anything you have to say on the subject is coming from misinformation and speculation on what happened in other sims way back when.. Y'know, it's interesting. 95% of the stuff in there as far as worries and prophecies of doom for online flying in IL2 from several people, YOU included, have not even come to pass. Not even close. Right now there are over 600 folks on HL.. on a Tuesday @1915 EST. So much for the death of online play...

As far as online goes, the end of it came when flying online on CRT=2 servers with switched FM parameters was tested with a positive result.

Fair and square flying became non existant. If the year 2008 proved anything - it proved that what is valuable for IL2 fans and cheat free online society supporters, is next to nothing for those willing to consume new - uncertified - addons to the game just to suit their consumerism needs.

So don`t twist my words. I have always meant end of fair online play, not all of the IL2 online gaming.

I said it then.. I'll say it now... the sim is hacked. Get over it.

Confirmed many times - ignorance is bliss.

If you cant do that then do like Carguy did and leave... but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

You`re right to an extent. The point of preventing the destruction of online play is moot. What is left from it is a great disapointment in people who I talked with, flew with, in my squad and others. People who proved to be two faced opportunists.

The only thing left for me from IL2 is sense of dignity and that I am, as an IL2 supporter, a man of my word.

The old arguments need to be revised. Like them or not, there is no denying that the mods have not hurt the sim. They have not ruined online flying. The expected FM & DM mods have not come en masse.... Most of the mods are functional improvements and immersion boosters.. and as I have said from day one.. they aren't going anywhere no matter who likes them or doesnt. Those who insist on seeing the doom and gloom where there is none need to look at today and stop looking at this issue from the prism of the past.

Look above, nothing has changed - you still participate in illegal exploit of the IL2 code against its creator.

If there`s anyone that is a legitimate voice is the person that posseses the intellectual right s to it - that person is still Oleg Maddox. I have not follwed IL2 since a while so maybe the property got sold. Fill me in if the buyer said it is ok to mod IL2. I`ll turn 180 degrees.
Oleg Maddox said it`s ruining the sim and online play - and the clear rules state his words, not yours, state the facts.

You can compare this to stealing a 1000$ every month from a bank account belonging to a milionaire. Jeeez! Doesn`t make him any difference if we steal 1000$ every month from him, does it?
Then why does the carnal law all over the world prosecutes this kind of practice?

that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

and people had issues with patches... official patches.. that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

Somehow...yes, they are bad people in a sense. In sense of stealing from the owner of the IL2 code. It is obvious that the vast majority of you people have gone the easy way of consuming the game to your needs independetly from the above. Many of you actually know that you`re doing a bad thing, though the numbers that stand behind you make you feel somewhat less responsible or even innocent o participating in it. People like me seem to ruin your day, because I keep reminding you that you`re undoubtedly an asshole. The carnal law names the doings as a crime, which tends to agree with the brightest minds of this world that the intellectual property needs a very strict protection. I wouldn`t exactly compare you to a guy who kills a human being, but the law says exactly what you`re doing when applying the mods.

The thing that is shocking to me, is that the urge to consume the hell outta anything, this game too, makes you people forget about the meaning of your doings and the consequences altoghether.

If there`s so many of you, an your opinions ensist on making the cracking of the game legal, good, beneficial to 1C, why don`t you just convince them?
Oh, they STILL think it`s wrong? They must be idiots to the same extent that I, and few other IL2 supporters are.

If that is what you DID mean then I totally disagree with you and I say that the fact that 12+ months after the initial "crime" there are NOT widespread FM-DM-Wep mods, hack kiddies have NOT taken over the sim, UFOs have not invaded HyperLobby , in all this the community is generally policing itself.

Funny how you keep sticking to the less significant factor of the case. I`m telling you keep actively supporting illegal practice, you say it is totally ok because it doesn`t hurt IL2 online play.
Well, the difference between you and me is that you keep voicing an opinion whereas I`m saying what is totally objective, because it is sanctioned by law.

Now all this may go to rot in a year or two... if that is to be the case that was the fact the moment the sim was hacked and you and others like you can shortchange yourself by not flying... or whatever you want to do. Me? I am going to continue to enjoy this sim that I have invested thousands in flying over the past 7 years... and enjoy the h@ll out of it while I can.

You particulary disgust me, as you often told how you support IL2 Sturmovik. And probably you still think so. Go ahead and enjoy it while you can, just do me a favor and refrain from telling others that what you`re participating in is any good.

[Wolf_Rider]

Without regard, the fact however "self justified" boils down to:

"Oleg, we are taking over" and without a moment's hestitation the sim was stolen.





ps I admire the "free speech" aspect of this board, it seems so much healthier than the previous.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Without regard, the fact however "self justified" boils down to:

"Oleg, we are taking over" and without a moment's hestitation the sim was stolen.

Exactly, and still people wonder why 4.09 still isnt relased........seriously, are u pople that dumb? (hey, i have to ask)

U seriously dont know why 4.09 isnt released yet? (or going to be..ever.)


And no, "Oleg bussy with SoW" isnt the right awnser.



Sry, just pointing at the obviouse, my personal feelings for or against mods is completly beside the point, so lets not go there.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by Brain32

Here, I will tell you what what I expirienced;
- the most common is invisible plane, bounced with tracers coming out of thin air, my squad buddy saw no plane, other example idiot in invisible bomber spawns on the field and shoots planes around with turrets...
- FM switching a variations to the theme, personally saw a P51 I could easily catch but couldn't outturn or outclimb no matter what, he tied a few of us until we applied anti-Spitfire tactics lol
- not to mention how many people fly with adjusted gunsights, mirrors, 6DOF and cool stuff like that.
As you can notice the above things were obviously made by amateurs, I'm afraid to think what someone good with Java could do...

Also I only responded here because Urufu sugested there are no cheats and we make things up, that's unacceptable.

I NEVER said there are no cheats, I said I've never encountered them online myself, I specifically said that cheats must exist but that it's no more a problem than it was before the mods and it's not rampant as was predicted in the beginning. Don't put words in my mouth.

As for the listed "cheats" above, the invisible planes were a problem long before the mods were out, a bad patch sequence causes this not cheaters (though it's possible it's a cheater you cannot hold it up as evidence since there is a common benign explaination for this phenomenon).

There is no way to prove there was FM switching involved in you P51 incident, I see threads all the time where someone states they cannot catch a particular variant they think they should be able to catch, before the mods came out! Gunsites, mirrors and 6DOF are all admittedly debatable but no more so than trackIR, rudder pedals and who has the power to run better graphics than others (situational awareness etc).


Look, I'm not saying there are not valid concerns about mods etc, I'm just saying the mass hysteria and doom and gloom are unjustified, as are the insults people are posting about mod users. If you feel that the cracking of the code is something you do not want to have anything to do with then thats fine, good on ya, but don't slander those with a different opinion and certainly don't spread lies and misinformation about the mods themselves just because you disagree with the way this started. Feel free to argue all day about the root of the issue and what it is that you disagree with, the cracking of olegs IP, but there's no need to sling mud and to take the topic to ridiculous area's that have nothing to do with reality or the cracking of the code.

[DoolittleRaider]

By Oleg's own admission in posts at the UBI Forums several years ago, the "On-liners" comprise no more than 5% of all IL2 series purchasers. They are, of course, by definition the most active on the internet and also most active and vocal on the various internet Forums, and thus they appear very erroneously to be the overwhelming 'majority'...they are not, by any stretch of the imagination.

Those 'on-liners' who "Cheat", as noted in an earlier post above, are clearly the very immature element who likewise are in the even more extreme minority, my guess being less than 5 in a hundred...which equates to less than 1/4 of One percent of all the purchasers (customers) of Oleg's IL2 series of products. This miniscule segment of the customer base, and also those who are obsessed with preventing their "Cheating", have wagged the tail of Oleg 1C's company for far too long...and I think he finally realized it.

Oleg could have extended the life of his IL2 series product line and made a lot more profit/money by welcoming the Modders into the fold, perhaps even hiring them to produce such improved Mods for sale under the umbrella of 1C's production efforts, rather than combating/resisting their MODding efforts.

The MODs have brought a whole new Life to the IL2 series, in spite of that resistance, winning many new Fans (IL2 CUSTOMERS) and thereby expanding the potential retail customer base for SOW:BofB....far moreso than would be the case resulting from any continued catering to the wagging tail. imho