Leading Edge Slats on the Me-109

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The second quote you put in there only depends on the pilots not the aircraft.

The 109 does spin out far too easily in game. From what iv read it should drop its nose and wing if in a turn, and not be able to gain speed or height until the stick is returned or pushed foward to regain speed to get the inward parts of the wing out of the stall and return airflow to normal. Should feel like its floating but actually in a controlled fall. Is that right?

[Crumpp]

That is pretty much stall behavior in an LE slat equipped high aspect ratio wing, macro!

The second quote you put in there only depends on the pilots not the aircraft.

Yes, it depends on the pilots human reaction to the behavior of the aircraft at the stall point.

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

That is pretty much stall behavior in an LE slat equipped high aspect ratio wing, macro!



Yes, it depends on the pilots human reaction to the behavior of the aircraft at the stall point.

But the second quote does not suggest the Spits or Hurries were actually in the stall, rather it suggests the Spit/hurri pilots should have pulled harder like in the first part of the same quote...

it was found that our aircraft turned inside the Me.109 without difficulty when flown by determined pilots who were not afraid to pull their aircraft round hard in a tight turn

that second quote is continuously used out of context, to translate it in simple terms it just means that 'a surprisingly large number of cases' which reads as less than a majority of the time and perhaps even very few times and only when the pursued Spits/Hurries were being flown by less determined pilots then the 109 managed to keep on their tail......why else would they be 'surprised' about it.

So what? the 109 didn't have vicious stall characteristics, it seems apparent that in a 109 you just shouldn't be messing around in that regime of flight due to a being completely disadvantaged in relative turn performance against Spits and Hurries, as Crumpp has confirmed an aircraft with LE slats is unable to maintain performance in tight turns due to high drag.

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So yes yes spit/hurri turns inside 109 as 109 would stall when trying to turn with the when flying "on the edge" (planes edge not pilots!) but the stall would be a smooth drop of the nose/wing/speed and height. Not a flip over and flat spin which is what we see in game.

Seems simple enough to me and i know jack all about aerodynamics.

In game though, i think the real stall would bemore dangerous than the one they have now. Shooting a 109 floating down would be alot easier than shooting one goin into a spin and overshooting them! 109 pilots use the spin to advantage at the moment as a last resort to get out of gun site.

[raaaid]

Originally Posted by macro

109 pilots use the spin to advantage at the moment as a last resort to get out of gun site.

i hate that manouber when im about to shoot someone

its amazing hhow we online rediscovered this techniques

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by macro

So yes yes spit/hurri turns inside 109 as 109 would stall when trying to turn with the when flying "on the edge" (planes edge not pilots!) but the stall would be a smooth drop of the nose/wing/speed and height. Not a flip over and flat spin which is what we see in game.

Seems simple enough to me and i know jack all about aerodynamics.

In game though, i think the real stall would bemore dangerous than the one they have now. Shooting a 109 floating down would be alot easier than shooting one goin into a spin and overshooting them! 109 pilots use the spin to advantage at the moment as a last resort to get out of gun site.

not quite, as reports show the 109 did drop a wing slightly in a gentle stall (about 10degrees) this is likely to be amplified in a high speed accelerated stall so it is possible to flip, but the spin should not be 'flat', the 109 has a good forward CoG and is likely to be quite easy to recover.

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Originally Posted by taildraggernut

not quite, as reports show the 109 did drop a wing slightly in a gentle stall (about 10degrees) this is likely to be amplified in a high speed accelerated stall so it is possible to flip, but the spin should not be 'flat', the 109 has a good forward CoG and is likely to be quite easy to recover.

So if you yanked on the stck and kept it there at high speeds it will flip? Forgive me not up to speed on terminology. Seems like you'd have to do this on purpose for it to happen.

At present, planes are flipping over at low speeds as well as high speeds which according to the reports is wrong.

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but inline with that, i thought 109 elevators were very heavy at high speeds so this yanking would be impossible?

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by macro

but inline with that, i thought 109 elevators were very heavy at high speeds so this yanking would be impossible?

in real life yes the elevator was apparently heavy, but how are we able to simulate that? the inputs made on game controllers will be proportional irrespective of speed and you can make full deflection, until they make FF that really simulates control stiffening properly that's going to be a problem, I don't think a software solution that limited deflection at speed would be ideal.

it was only rumoured to be impossible to pull hard on the stick at the very highest speeds if you read the annecdotes about allied pilots forcing 109's to fly into the ground in dives.

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Originally Posted by taildraggernut

in real life yes the elevator was apparently heavy, but how are we able to simulate that? the inputs made on game controllers will be proportional irrespective of speed and you can make full deflection, until they make FF that really simulates control stiffening properly that's going to be a problem, I don't think a software solution that limited deflection at speed would be ideal.

it was only rumoured to be impossible to pull hard on the stick at the very highest speeds if you read the annecdotes about allied pilots forcing 109's to fly into the ground in dives.

It seems that without ff for everyone limitimg the elevator movement in game would be the only solution for this. I fly a 109 sometimes and at very fast speeds the elevator has less effect already i think? So is it already modelled? Maybe just needs tweaking?