4.11 - AI debugging

[Lagarto]

Aviar, the problem, as I understand it, is of different nature. I don't want my AI wingmen to stay in formation, just the opposite. I don't mind them leading me to enemy aircraft they 'spotted' - provided they're kind enough to inform me that they're breaking off formation to engage something!
My AI wingmen are usually better than me in locating enemy in the sky (they don't have to strain their eyes; being computer-controlled, they just 'know' that something's coming), so being a flight leader I rely on them in that matter. All I want is that they call out the 'bandits' instead of just flying away on their own, the way they do now.

[Aviar]

Ok, since this is the AI debugging thread, I'll throw one in here that is a real immersion killer, although it only happens under certain circumstances. However, it is still annoying when it does happen.

If I have a small mission (let's say 3 flyable Allied planes) and I host a coop and all 3 planes are manned by a human....when we get near an enemy flight, the 'AI' will scream out the 'bandits sighted' call.

Well, there is NO friendly AI anywhere on the map because all 3 planes are manned by humans. Who is this AI ghost screaming on the radio that they see bandits? It really breaks the mood.

Ok, vent mode off. This is really not a fault of 4.11, as it's been around for years...maybe from day one. It's just that it happened again today and the post above mine reminded me of it.

So, if this small issue can ever be resolved it would be nice.

EDIT: I forgot...this AI 'ghost' also congratulates you when you get a kill....LOL.

Aviar

[jameson]

That happened to me flying earlier with AI as wingman, he'd been shot down and five minutes later he's praised my shooting! Sadly I was shot down later and during that, looking behind I see the P39 firing and next to him the useless AI watching presumably , no warning either. They still fly on your dead six where you can't see them, mind you given they now only just fly, unless you order them to do something, (with the reply, negative! negative!). lol!
The enemy AI are much better in 4.11 tho'.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by jameson

That happened to me flying earlier with AI as wingman, he'd been shot down and five minutes later he's praised my shooting!

There's lots of little ways that friendly AI radio messages are messed up. Huge amounts of lag before a message is transmitted is just one.

Even more jarring is a "calm voice" "This is [Number] . . ." statements followed by a long period of silence, then a "freak out" message (e.g., "I'm bailing out!").

Another annoyance is that the game doesn't have unit callsigns, just generic "color" names and all units use the same "frequencies." This means, during a big mission, when multiple flights of the same color are in the air, you can have multiple "red 2" (or whatever) calling out different messages simultaneously.

Even worse, since friendly planes never identify their location on the map, you've got no way of knowing which "red 2" (or whatever) is under attack/returning to base/bailing out.

Another annoyance is that periodically someone (I've never figured out who) will call out random numbers. I've been playing IL2 for something like 8 years now and I still don't know what those random numbers mean. Is it ground control calling out altitudes and courses? If so, whose altitude and course? Why?

If you're going to have ground control, it should actually vector you towards your target.

Then of course, there's the friendly AI which calls out "bandits" (or whatever) without giving you any useful information about: A) Number, B) Type, C) Location, D) Altitude, E) Activity.

In a better world, you'd get a report like "2 bandit fighters, 5 o'clock high, inbound!" or "Multiple bogies, 20,000 feet, grid coordinates 20-32, inbound!"

In a perfect world, you'd have even more info, like "2 109s, 5 o'clock high, coming in!" (i.e., actually beginning an attack run) or "Multiple bogies, angels 20, 17 miles off Lunga Point, inbound. Course 137 degrees, speed 250 knots."

Finally, while it's merely a "color" thing, some of the AI dialog just sounds wrong when translated into other languages/dialects. Every air force had its own method of doing things and its own slang.

For example, "He's going to hell" might be a good literal translation from the Russian, but a 1940s British pilot might say "That Jerry's gone for a Burton" when claiming a kill over a German plane, while an American pilot of the period might say, "That Kraut's down for the count!"

The better add-on voice packs get this right. Stock voice packs, not so much.

[apexGP]

Just wanna add a few observations of my own;

Generally, AI (friend and foe) will not withdraw from an engagement zone after sustaining damage that causes heavy oil and/or fuel loss. I would imagine that this should realistically illicit a fairly immediate RTB protocol at the first opportunity. There are some exceptions of course, such as with heavy bombers approaching a target zone, but with flights of smaller A/C (singles or even mutli-engine), they should generally withdraw in an attempt to save themselves and their A/C, being that their ability to execute their mission objectives would at that point be severely compromised. I often see fighter AI with critical engine damage just carrying on like nothing's wrong until they fall out of the sky.

Fighter AI (friend or foe) can often pull off spectacular deflection shots, but then fail to hit a non-maneuvering (and often damaged) target that's directly in front of them. This one has caused me some issues. I've seen my own AI wingmen (of all skill levels) pull off amazing snapshots with a single burst, but then fly right up behind a damaged, non-maneuvering opponent and miss repeatedly until they decide to break off (in frustration?) and leave a potential threat that they should have taken down to become a threat again. They don't attempt to re-engage. I've left several wingmen's wing before when they were literally only moments from serving the coup de grace (ie; sustained guns blazing) on a damaged, straight and level foe, to deal with other threats, only to be later shot down by that very same damaged enemy that my AI wingman let off the hook! Sometimes other wingmen in my flight were right behind me just watching it happen too Almost like the rounds they were firing and missing were actually seen by them as hits, and they broke off their attack cuz they now considered that enemy dead and simply didn't 'see' them anymore. Very strange.

Often, ace AI (QMB) will stay with their A/C after the engine has been disabled in what at first seems to be an attempt at a dead-stick emergency ditch, but ends up becoming a funeral pyre because they don't try to find open areas to attempt the landing. I've witnessed behavior where they actually fly right into a town instead of any of the surrounding fields they had the option to glide to when they still had the altitude available. These pilots are alive when this happens, I fly by and look and then I sometimes observe them in the replay. Dead-sticking carries risks of course, and I'm not implying that every AI should survive when attempting one... but they seem to not give themselves the opportunity because they don't try to guide their planes to open areas.

Most of these observations happened in single-player missions with varying levels of mission complexity, with the exception of the last example.

Excellent work so far! I appreciate all your efforts immensely

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by apexGP

I often see fighter AI with critical engine damage just carrying on like nothing's wrong until they fall out of the sky.

...and only then they exclaim: 'Damn, I'm hit!' (or something like that), as if they just discovered that fact

Seriously, this is one of the reasons why AI units suffer such unrealistically high losses, up to 100% in one go.

[eduzk]

At least once this happened in dynamic campaign game: We flew eight Bf109s. Number one crash-landed, but the pilot stayed in the cockpit. Two, three and four continued their patrol route, but the second flight kept circling over the crashed number one.

[JG26_EZ]

I don't have many details regarding the "glitch" I've heard reported in my missions, but something to note just incase others are now experiencing it aswell..

Two old missions. AI was in P39's '42
While hosting, twice now, I've been asked by a pilot "Are you still here?"
I waved it off the first time.. but then again today.. different mission but same P39's.. Someone asked again "Are you still here?"
I replied "Yes", and we continued flying..
When we were finished the mission, I asked what the issue was..
He replied that the P39's were flying under the ground and thought that the host had disconnected (the reason for asking if I was sill there).

Like I mentioned at the start.. I don't have a .ntrk or any hardcore evidence, but figured I'd mention it incase others notice the same problem. (It might have been on my end, but I haven't had anyone speak of this problem before now/v4.11)

[Alien]

Please get the kill stealing issue repaired at last! Everytime when I damage enemy plane and get on his tail to finally kill him, my ,,wingmen'' dive on him and tear him apart. And just moments ago I torn an enemy hurri and it was falling without its tail, then got hit by 1!!! MG bullet of my no 3 and when it hit the ground, it wasn't a kill for me. But when I try to do the same, the kill goes to AI. WTF? I know you haven't made this aspect of the game but please get it finally fixed. Please.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Alien

Please get the kill stealing issue repaired at last! Everytime when I damage enemy plane and get on his tail to finally kill him, my ,,wingmen'' dive on him and tear him apart.

More to the point, the program needs to register a destroyed plane as being destroyed at the moment it loses a vital part, the crew bails out, it ditches, or it makes a crash landing.

Having the computer figure out when a plane is destroyed due to damage should be simple. If damage to the plane is sufficiently bad that the crew bails out, the computer should register a kill at the same time.

If damage kills the pilot(s), the computer should also register a kill.

Figuring out when a plane has ditched is a bit harder. But, if the computer detects that a land plane is sinking into water, it should immediately register the kill.

Figuring out when a plane has crash landed is a bit trickier, but it can't be that hard. Just have the computer recognize a kill when a) the plane's propeller is bent, b) the landing gear is up or sheared off, & c) the plane is stationary.

And, as always, for people who don't like "instant kill claiming" there should be an option in the UI so that you can turn it off.