German Prop Pitch Lever

[IvanK]

"2, The instument board pp. change lever has labels and positions for groBer and kleiner Drehzahl (increase/decrease rpm) settings but the real one had an extra bottom position: Segelstellung. This was fixed, ie. the lever stayed there and keep the propeller in feathered position when set, explicetely for the purpose of freeing him from the burden of having the keep pressing the lever all the time1!"

And the Devs were made aware of precisely this a while ago ... so hopefully a further fix will ensue.

Mind you I cant think of too many occasions when you would want to feather a prop in a single engine aeroplane. Perhaps in the case of a failed engine and you are trying to minimise drag to increase your gliding range.

[II./JG1_Krupinski]

Just my two cents on our options and whether or not a feature was or was not included on any plane.

As far as our options are concerned, I'd love it for the prop pitch lever to function correctly, IMO and I may be wrong, this was push forward and RPM increased, move to middle, and it stops moving, pull it down and it decreases RPM, and again, move to middle it stops moving.

As long as we can functionally get there, and we are IMO, then the graphics can come later if at all. (personally i'd love to see that, but I'm not withholding my support from 1C over it)

Now, whether or not the Auto function with CSU fitted as a field mod came into service in Dec 39 or late 40 is a moot point. Even if it did see service in 39, this is not that plane.

[heloguy]

Originally Posted by IvanK

"2, The instument board pp. change lever has labels and positions for groBer and kleiner Drehzahl (increase/decrease rpm) settings but the real one had an extra bottom position: Segelstellung. This was fixed, ie. the lever stayed there and keep the propeller in feathered position when set, explicetely for the purpose of freeing him from the burden of having the keep pressing the lever all the time1!"

And the Devs were made aware of precisely this a while ago ... so hopefully a further fix will ensue.

Mind you I cant think of too many occasions when you would want to feather a prop in a single engine aeroplane. Perhaps in the case of a failed engine and you are trying to minimise drag to increase your gliding range.

From the looks of the switch, and I've seen a few as a mechanic, if it's springloaded in the middle position, then it doesn't have to be in the locked in the lower 'Segelstellung' position in order to feather it. The notch was just built in so that the pilot could quickly reach up in the event of an engine failure, place the switch there, and then the prop would feather as it's being held in the that position. You should still be able to feather the prop by holding the lever down, if you wanted to for whatever reason.

[Blackdog_kt]

You're probably correct.
If you've seen a picture of the actual instrument there's a detent on the lower position to keep the switch there, probably so that the pilot doesn't have to manually hold it there and fight the spring-loaded return to center while it feathers.

On the other hand, it could also be that the detent enables an extended range of motion that's not available via the normal control range to prevent accidental feathering in flight.

In any case the operation is similar from the pilot's point of view, it should pretty much work the way Kurfurst pointed out: spring loaded 3-way switch with a separate feathering detent, corrected rate of pitch change (it's too slow currently) and if i may add, solving the reversal issue (controls are backwards now).

Originally Posted by Absolut

realistic or non realistic...blablabla , is its realistic that my reargunner can only shot when not moving, is it realistic that we all fly with no antropomorph, is it realistic that i alwaysm lost sound , is it realistic that the bombs now droping like darts, is it realistic that i can bail out under a second in any position, is it realistic...blablabla.
i payed 69euros, and i play a well made accurate game that impressed with its option to set.(now a lot of them works well)
But i do not accept that some tolds thats realistic and dont talk about put any option for it, after i played it for a long time now.
OK, im seriously playing since the begining of il2, i never had to be posting like this, but someone brutaly handed with my messerschmitt 109, its no virgin any more.
Gentleman is that the way u give us performance?




no more propitch on this controls, is that ok?
im not amused any more, to spend time to fly my 109, its urs.

You can still use your controls for prop pitch. There's a big zone that corresponds to each switch position so it's pretty easy to do.

If you move your slider up or down it's like holding the button in that position and pitch will change as long as you hold it there, return it to center when you reach your desired pitch and it will stay there.

And yes, it's actually more realistic this way.

No offence, but i think a lot of people carry their IL2:1946 habits with them and that's why they can't get to grips with how many of the controls work. I had some trouble too initially, but now that i understood how most of them work i find the new way of doing things much better than what we had. Real planes don't all have the same controls and it's good that this is reflected in the sim. Sure, there are bugs but patches are frequent and we're getting there.

[Varrattu]

Originally Posted by IvanK

Which VDM propeller and in which aircraft ? Fw190 kommandgerate operation has a different pitch slew rate to the DB system that lacks kommandgerate.

Maybe that the manual "D.(Luft)T. 3810 - VDM-Verstell-Luftschrauben Gerätehandbuch" can help us. But I didn't find anything of its content in open sources.

Regards Varrattu

PS: Have a look at this
http://www.enginehistory.org/Convent...20Electric.pdf

From the book, The Messerschmitt Bf.109 by James F. Craig.
"Another departure was the propeller pitch control, which was mounted near the centre of the instrument panel instead of on the throttle quadrant, and the prop pitch indicator, which was in the form of a clock face, complete with hour & minute hands. Blade angles of the VDM electric propeller, which were infinitely variable from a low pitch position of 22.5 degree to fully feathered 90 degree position, were read as clock settings. About ten minutes on the clock face was equivalent to one degree of propeller pitch."

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by IvanK

And the Devs were made aware of precisely this a while ago ... so hopefully a further fix will ensue.

Good to hear that. Mind you, I am patient with Oleg and his team, I am just noting these issues so if hopefully the Devs read these boards, they have chance to fix it some time or another.

Mind you I cant think of too many occasions when you would want to feather a prop in a single engine aeroplane. Perhaps in the case of a failed engine and you are trying to minimise drag to increase your gliding range.

Agreed, its not a serious issue.. though I wonder why they removed it in the first place...?
I may be ignorant of the practical applications of feathering a propeller, but isn't that the only reason you'd want to feather the propeller on any plane...?

A bit of an info I managed to dig up (English transation of the French technical report of Bf 109 E-3 WNr 1304, captured in late 1939 in France, subsequently tested in Britain)

[heloguy]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

On the other hand, it could also be that the detent enables an extended range of motion that's not available via the normal control range to prevent accidental feathering in flight.

That may be true, but I'd almost go as far to bet that this was an analog switch that worked on resistance: the further you moved the switch away from center, the faster the prop adjusted up to the max, which was around .7 degrees per Kurfurt's note. This was simple enough back then, as there's no special pressure sensing, it would just be an increase and decrease in electrical resistance.


Edit: Changed the prop change speed after reading Kurfurst's post better.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by heloguy

-.....he faster the prop adjusted up to the max, which was around .7 degrees per Kurfurt's note. This was simple enough back then, as there's no special pressure sensing, it would just be an increase and decrease in electrical resistance.

Keep well in mind that the French report above is based on an assumption:

"assuming that the speed of the rotation of the electric motor to be 2500 rpm..."

then, IF this is TRUE

"the speed of change of the pitch would be of the order of 0,7 degrees per second"

Keywords: "assuming" "would be" "of the order of".

I presume the assumption by the French simply follows the gear ratios found, ie. IF the e-motor runs at 2500, THEN the prop pitch change will be 0.7 degrees/sec."

HOWEVER the speed of the rotation of the electric motor (VDM Elektrischer Drehzahlregler 9-9518B type) appears to be 5700 /min, and NOT 2500 /min as the French assumed. Ie. a bit more than TWICE as fast.

See: D.Luft. T 3810 VDM Verstellscharuben Geraete Handbuch, page 19, page 29:




Based on the above, assuming about 1,5 degrees/sec for the 109E seems entirely reasonable. After all, that's about what every single source tells us, including Schwarze Mann. And it was so before in the patch..

[IvanK]

A little more from Schwarze-mann



So in Static conditions 1.5 deg sec and in normal (under load) conditions 1 deg per sec. so in flight imo we should be seeing 1 deg sec pitch rate. This is consistent with all the references shown in this thread.

Devs are aware of this issue expect a fix soon.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by IvanK

A little more from Schwarze-mann

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/638/dbbmpropitch.jpg

So in Static conditions 1.5 deg sec and in normal (under load) conditions 1 deg per sec. so in flight imo we should be seeing 1 deg sec pitch rate. This is consistent with all the references shown in this thread.

Devs are aware of this issue expect a fix soon.

Great. Thank you.
I was thinking about something meanwhile. It reports it if the velocity of the elektromotor changes (Kurfurst doc: PP motor 2000-6000 rpm), that with the switch can be made change in? slow or fast moving it depends, how much I drive the switch out from middle?

[edit] No. I found the circuit diagram [1] [2], its only a simple switch. PP have constant speed.
Ok ok, i'm finished