Could 4.10 Update lock the SFS files again and reunite the online community?

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by T}{OR

When you look at it, it is sad what mods did to IL2 regarding online play. Those who still play keep to themselves with their own mod packs and to their own squadrons. Times where you could join any server and just pick up a plane and fly are long gone.

It was predictable and has happened before in other games.

Basically you have the equivalent of trying to run a national football league where everyone can write their own rules, most state competitions have a home town rule set (squad servers) and the best you can get is groups of players agreeing on using the same rules (UP etc) except there are several different groups each with a different rule set.

Problem is whilst some teams still use the old national football rules many teams LIKE their own rules and would refuse to play if a national set of rules was re-introduced. Some players prefer no rules at all and in fact believe what makes a great player is being able to make up your own rules.

[T}{OR]

Precisely. As soon as the word come out it was just a matter of time. In the beginning when there was only one pack things more or less still worked.

[Sven]

Offline players are the source for new online players, dont forget that, to maintain high level of offline players we need mods ( Apparantly ), I know of many people who enjoyed offline so much thanks to mods that they wanted to go flying online, they joined our group and now fly online campaigns along with us. The pure online flyers are in thin numbers compared to all these groups with different mods ( although the standard seems to be 2.01 )

I have to agree that those like youself Thor benefited from the non split up online community, and would have liked to keep it that way, but that is just not the puplic opinion apparently, that's why we end up here with the divided community, so locking a game up would certainly not be good for the majority of the online players.

Sven

[SlipBall]

I think Oleg said it best...these people don't realize what they did to on-line play

and they still don't get it! LOL

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Sven

Offline players are the source for new online players, dont forget that, to maintain high level of offline players we need mods ( Apparantly ), I know of many people who enjoyed offline so much thanks to mods that they wanted to go flying online, they joined our group and now fly online campaigns along with us. The pure online flyers are in thin numbers compared to all these groups with different mods ( although the standard seems to be 2.01 )

I have to agree that those like youself Thor benefited from the non split up online community, and would have liked to keep it that way, but that is just not the puplic opinion apparently, that's why we end up here with the divided community, so locking a game up would certainly not be good for the majority of the online players.

Sven

That is because the majority of people who once played are now just waiting for SoW, playing something else... Playing IL2 with all the latest mods is like having a part time job now.

It has nothing to do with public opinion - if there is no control then there is anarchy. Anarchy might not be the best word to describe it but it comes close. With stock we had a control over what was available to every player out there and thus equal playing field.


I never said that the locking of the game is a good idea. I do agree on the part that offline players feed online player numbers.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Sven

Offline players are the source for new online players, dont forget that, to maintain high level of offline players we need mods

I play only offline, and I have not ever used mods. That may be in part because I don't know them, but then again, I don't know because I haven't been interested enough to look for them. I'm currently using the stock 1946 disk install (4.07?), I installed up to 4.08 once, but reinstalled Windows since then and I can't be bothered to install and install and install to get up to the current version.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

I play only offline, and I have not ever used mods. That may be in part because I don't know them, but then again, I don't know because I haven't been interested enough to look for them. I'm currently using the stock 1946 disk install (4.07?), I installed up to 4.08 once, but reinstalled Windows since then and I can't be bothered to install and install and install to get up to the current version.

To get up to the current version you need to install two patches... 408m and 409m. After that I guess if you did want the MOD stuff that'd be countless amounts of installs and tweaking.

In any case bog standard IL-2 1946 comes with so much content. Yes I want more but I'm enjoying what I've got right now. So much potential and 4.10 with all of that new content will be really great to have in a full out release.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by T}{OR

Precisely. As soon as the word come out it was just a matter of time. In the beginning when there was only one pack things more or less still worked.

Sad but true and things seem to have just gone a bit haywire from there. I would have loved to see a more dedicated group try to organize overall efforts (I was part of a community where the source code of the game was made available by the developer and there is a dedicated coding group that handles all of the "official" MOD releases) but that doesn't seem to have happened. There are several groups and they don't always talk to each other which is really too bad.

I guess these days I just play on one server and I know what my experience is going to be. Works alright for me.

[Pursuivant]

At the risk of getting hated on, I'd like to offer a different view.

I'm a "semi-casual" offline gamer, which I believe is an underrepresented demographic on this forum. I'll admit to enjoying "unofficial additions" to the game, but I also agree that many of them are of poor quality. I can also see how they can easily upset the status quo in the online community.

It seems to me that the big deal is to make sure that everyone's playing nicely with each other, regardless of the purity of their IL2 installation with respect to the EULA. What I do offline doesn't matter to anyone, except perhaps the IP lawyers at UbiSoft and 1C. Were I to venture online, though, I'd want to play with people of want to play the same game.

What's needed are better tools to not only restrict or allow [censored "m-word"], but also tools to better reward good online behavior and punish misbehavior. Basically, tools for "community-building." With that in mind, I propose the following:

1) Better server tools for detecting and allowing/disallowing "fan-inspired add-ons." The same server tools could also be set to allow or disallow certain online cheats/annoyances, such as triggering wingtip smoke, or possibly even "camping." (Set the game to recognize an attack with guns at less than X altitude within Y meters of an enemy base.)

2) Some form of trusted user system for a particular servers. Basically, a rating system you can use for opponents you know to be honorable. Once you get enough "respect" you have limited ability to act as a "referee" - flagging misbehavior or potential cheating - not just by enemies, but by friends. Note that this doesn't just include cheating, but also vulching, camping, team-killing and all those other wonderful online felonies.

The sysadmin can set it so that enough flags from trusted users can result in bad actors being punished or even booted from the server. Yes, there should also be a way of losing trusted user status for abusing your privileges.

Likewise, there should be a way of sharing good or bad "karma" between trusted server networks. If you've got a reputation for honorable play, it should carry over from game to game and server to server. If you've got a reputation for being a jackass, that should carry over, too.

3) Some way of identifying or punishing potential cheaters in the game short of being kicked off the server. For example, if a potential cheater has been flagged twice, the sysadmin might set it so his plane emits red smoke, or his landing gear drops, or his engine loses 20% of its power, or his guns jam, or AI takes control of his plane.

Basically, if you just kick a cheater of a server, he'll just log into another server, or go drown some cute kittens, or poison candy, or something else. If you neutralize his advantage while still letting him play, you really make it no fun for him. He's more likely to log out voluntarily and take up a new hobby like pouring kerosene down anthills or dropping bricks off highway overpasses.

Obviously, the concept of imposing punishment is easily abused, which is why it has to be imposed communally by the sysadmin and several trusted users.

4) Some way of of amicably settling FM/DM debates so that red/blue performance debates become a matter of personal (or sysadmin/mission builder) choice rather than the stuff of flame wars. Each plane has its own quirks and its performance can change slightly based on a number of factors. Historical performance data represents glimpses as to what a particular model of plane is capable of doing, not a comprehensive history of the series.

I'd love to see a system where the user (or the mission builder or the sysadmin) could alter the FM/DM performance of each plane by +/-10% from "stock." That would nicely model both the benefits of a factory-fresh plane with a carefully tuned engine and a fresh wax job and the miseries of flying a war-weary hangar queen tanked up with inferior fuel. Better yet, have a system which randomly alters plane performance from stock, so you don't know the quirks of your individual plane until you've put it through its paces.

Finally, I'll also point out that many of the features in the 4.09 and the 4.10 patches started life as "grassroots-derived supplements." I can see many other such additions becoming "official" in future patches - especially the wealth of wonderful new maps which open up entire new theaters of war. Locking the SFS files would kill all that, and would just drive the modder and "purist" communities farther apart.

[GF_Mastiff]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

Why do you care? Would it change any of the points I made?
The fact that mods exist means what? Should we do something about it?
Considering what I stated before we have the following options:
1) Ignore mods
2) Introduce new protection scheme to prevent them (at least temporarily)
3) There is no 3rd option

wow your trying to make an example and then nullify everyone else's opinion?
Why did you even post then; as if it's your way or the highway attitude?
"Why do you care?" why did you even post if ya didn't want a response?

By the way Maddox's never said he disliked the mods or was disappointed.
I believe his exact words were it's interesting. He liked the improvements and relished in the fact that allot of stuff they couldn't finish because of money and time, was implemented.
read his interviews.