Rebalancing of tanks needed!

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

I prefer the elefant. It has much better armour than Jagdpanther and costs only a few points more. A Jagdpanther can be penetrated from front, Elefant is immune 2 that. Also Jagdpanthers are very weak against ISU-152's.

Exactly, the Elefant is the only TD I buy, if any.

[Evilsausage]

I guess the Elefant can be a better when fighting in high income games. Since Jagdpanther has too low armor to battle IS-3s, T-29s effectivly.

However in most cases on normal income games i prefer Jagdpanther.
I have found slow tank destroyers to be way to easy to disable.
You can't use turretless units as damages sponges since they get easily detracked. And then renderd useless...
Whats so great about the JP is that its so fast. You can quickly go in for the kill and then move back again. Elefants are just too slow for that and they will just try to avoid it if they see it comming.

But i can agree on that the JP is easy target for artillery. Normaly avoid getting it if theres alot of arty spam going on...or if there are ISU-152s out.

[[SOE]No.Mam]

Originally Posted by Evilsausage

However in most cases on normal income games i prefer Jagdpanther.

i agree. i think jagdpanther is best (& sexiest ) tank ingame. when you use your jagdpanther carefully - no other tank have any change.

... but heavy arty or ISU-152 or HE from IS2/3 are deadly for jagdpanther.

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

Lolz, all that I put there about the Tiger wasnt a mod....it was 1.17.5 MP on the Warehouse map in the base game. Also, just the other day I was shooting a T34/76 from like 70 and closer and was doing nothing but bouncing with 2 Pzr IV H's with straight on shots to its side and frontal armor untill I got to like 30 and closer then I got yellow numbers and it went through finally. If I was able to record battles and make videos for proof of some of this crap I sooo totally would. Then in a Tank only battle just the other day I took the Pzr IV G and was shooting a lone M4A1 Sherman from pretty much max distance and bouncing off its side with like 7-8 shots. Only when the guy got like 60 away with like 2 or 3 straight on front shots did I get him. Am i having all this trouble b/c people are using armor cheats and cheating in this game is more common then I think it is or what? Soo many people say the Tiger is good but when I see it used in MP or play with it in the editor it sucks. The Panther I know has melted butter for armor, not complaining about that, just stating what about it I dont like.

1. Record videos with fraps.
2. Maybe you are just a bad shooter? you could be hitting the top part of the T-34's armour, and the T-34 could be in a semi hull down position (increasing its slope drastically). If it was a shot from 60m hitting directly at front, it did not happen.
3. M4A1 has decent side armour. I would expect it to bounce off a few shots from a Panzer 4G at 140m, especially if it hit the upper part of the side-armour. From front: you need 2 hit from 80-90 meters usually. Try to shoot against points where there is minimum amount of slope, and NEVER shoot at the upper part of the armour.


Sounds 2 me you are exaggerating. Sorry man, but no way in hell did a T-34/76 m40 take a head on centre on front armour Panzer4H shot, on flat ground from 60m. This may happen sometimes, but that would be extremely rare.

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by Evilsausage

I guess the Elefant can be a better when fighting in high income games. Since Jagdpanther has too low armor to battle IS-3s, T-29s effectivly.

However in most cases on normal income games i prefer Jagdpanther.
I have found slow tank destroyers to be way to easy to disable.
You can't use turretless units as damages sponges since they get easily detracked. And then renderd useless...
Whats so great about the JP is that its so fast. You can quickly go in for the kill and then move back again. Elefants are just too slow for that and they will just try to avoid it if they see it comming.

But i can agree on that the JP is easy target for artillery. Normaly avoid getting it if theres alot of arty spam going on...or if there are ISU-152s out.

Jagdpanthers don't exactly have an impressive reverse-speed. I usually see people use it in the same way as the elefant or other heavy tanks, which is from far back sniping over-eager tanks.

Though yes, I see your point very well. A Jagdpanther is very flexible, and in my experience harder 2 immobilize than an elefant.

I still almost always buy Elefants though, as the maps usually aren't that big.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

1. Record videos with fraps.
2. Maybe you are just a bad shooter? you could be hitting the top part of the T-34's armour, and the T-34 could be in a semi hull down position (increasing its slope drastically). If it was a shot from 60m hitting directly at front, it did not happen.
3. M4A1 has decent side armour. I would expect it to bounce off a few shots from a Panzer 4G at 140m, especially if it hit the upper part of the side-armour. From front: you need 2 hit from 80-90 meters usually. Try to shoot against points where there is minimum amount of slope, and NEVER shoot at the upper part of the armour.

That T34/76 M43 was sitting in the middle of the road on Dunverde near that lake on the side of the map.....I was hitting the right side of its hull where the driver door is and then the center of its side....and side shot got it when I got close enough. The side shot Panzer was sitting on that shore by that lake on Dunverde and T34 was sitting right on the road like 40 or so from me, maybe I can recreate what it looked like in the editor haha. All i know is I wasnt that far away and my penetration was like red and yellow. Also. I was letting the AI do some of the shooting while I DC'd the other Panzer. As for the Sherman its side armor is just as crappy as the Panther....its like 40 something....thats not decent haha. I always go level with my tank so I am getting straight on hits to the tank. However, even w/ all my troubles in this game ive still wasted me many a tank=P I guess itsthe random number generator for penetration kicking my ass. One shot it goes through like a knife through melted butter and other times its 50shots and nothing.....

[Nikitns]

1. Editor has different stats the MP. I told u already.
2. T-34/76 has equal armour on its sides and from the front.
3. If the T-34 was angled against ur panzer this would proove why ur shots didn't do anything.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

2. T-34/76 has equal armour on its sides and from the front.

equal armor on the side like the front? That would be quite bad if I got you right here.

~ though I noticed the T34/85 hull is quite resistant to the Panzer IV H. To resistant as the T34/85 had literaly the same armor values compared to the T34/76. And those could be destroyed by the panzer IV H succesfully on all distances regardless the angle. Sadly in Men of War, I never have reasons to fear the Panzer IV as its gun isnt even close to the pentration it should have.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

1. Editor has different stats the MP. I told u already.
2. T-34/76 has equal armour on its sides and from the front.
3. If the T-34 was angled against ur panzer this would proove why ur shots didn't do anything.

I know the editor stats are different from MP....Also, if just a mere angle of any kind puts the Panzer IV gun from god to worthless then that just shows the German guns need to be upped more so b/c no Angle on any German tank saves it from anything....ive tried it w/ my Panzer IV and King Tiger, Panther, Tiger.....all the Allieds need is the side to be visible and they can hit it and kill you regardless of angle. Ive done it to Panthers and Panzer IVs, Tigers I just simply hit the front lower bumper and it usually blows up like an Atomic bomb hit it. Also, that T34 wasnt angled hardly at all. I Know it has that 60 degree slope in its armor already and so I try for as stright on shots as I can get. My side shot that killed it was as straight on as you can get, I made sure of it, got nice and close and straight on....pow, dead haha. As for the armor is the armor i see in the .def files that different from MP? I see no where that it has that "from MP" not a mod" line for armor, its there for some guns penetration, fuel load and speed but not for armor. The T34's armor is on the hull "52/47/47/22ish. Turret: 47/47/47 ish, it shouldnt stand to a Panzer IVH and its KWK40 L48 gun at angle.....yet in MOW it does..very well. Only the T34/85's turret should stand even a slim chance of not being killed. The T34/85 in MP is the same hull armor as the T34 but its turret is like 90 on the front...so yeah. as for the Sherman...its armor is shit, it is in fact a worthless tank w/ a high silouhette so it really shouldnt be standing up to 7-8 side shots from the Pzr IV G at any distance. Its armor in game is like Turret: 64/37/37/25 Hull: 76/42/42/25 or something. So yeah, I had like 86 penetration at like the 110m I was against his side armor yet didnt go through. So I guess after all this im not convinced the Allies are balanced and I cant convince you the Germans suck eh? haha

[Korsakov829]

The tanks shouldn't be balanced. If everything was balanced, perfectly matched, the war would still be at a stalemate. In the early stages of the war Germany was going against the Soviet KV-1s with Panzer IIs. Panzer IIs get bogged down due to thin tracks, and even though they hit the KV-1s they can not penetrate with what, a 37mm shell? A single KV-1 against 50 Panzer IIs will be able to take down 30-40 before running out of ammunition, while the Panzer IIs can only make a dent in the armor. There is no balance, nobody would want a tank equal to or worse then the enemy tanks. The Allied tanks were behind, and Germany did have better tanks before the Allies even landed in Normandy, way late in the war. Yeah the Allied tanks were good, against the Japaneese. Not so good against the Germans. In North Africa, the Allies were somewhat matched with the German tanks but not much better or worse.