Patch 4.10 - Development Updates by Daidalos Team

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by Adwark

Can you show me please source where this is written?

It is you that is making a claim about the relative structural properties of materials, Adwark, so the burden of proof is really on you. I realise you have given us a link to a Russian source, but without being able to read it, I can't really comment on what it says - in any case, a debate like this is unlikely to be settled by reference to a single source.

Aircraft design is a complex process, and involves amongst other things a good understanding of the properties of the particular materials involved. Simply comparing 'wood' to 'metal' and making statements about how 'fragile' they are is pointless in this context - you need to refer to particular materials, in the situation they are being used. Generalisations tell us little.

[Adwark]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

It is you that is making a claim about the relative structural properties of materials, Adwark, so the burden of proof is really on you. I realise you have given us a link to a Russian source, but without being able to read it, I can't really comment on what it says - in any case, a debate like this is unlikely to be settled by reference to a single source.

Yes this is Russian aviation engineers handbook printed at 1954. I was written about it. I agree, if you can't read it, our debate about this book is pointless and we are return to our old positions. Sorry, but I hasn't equal source in English. If I was find something like this in English, I was be glad continue or debate.

[AndyJWest]

I've had a quick look at what Google Translate makes of the book, and it may at least give me an idea of what it is saying. I'm sure there must be other sources for information like this, written in English - I'll see what I can find.

EDIT-------
Unfortunately, on downloading the book I find that it is a scanned image, rather than text, so Google Translate is no help. The file also seems to be corrupted, rendering many pages unreadable.

[Ernst]

Ok... But, where are the DT guys to anwser my last question about in game g loadings?

Please, call them to answer!

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Ernst

Ok... But, where are the DT guys to anwser my last question about in game g loadings?

Please, call them to answer!

Hopefully busy testing

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by Ernst

Ok... But, where are the DT guys to anwser my last question about in game g loadings?

Please, call them to answer!

I think they have probably answered your question already, at the beginning of this thread:

Development Update - 2010-03-04

Structural G Limits & Multiple Joystick Profiles (internal DT development)

At present all aircraft in IL2 have a single fixed Structural G limit of +13G. It only really becomes an issue with aircraft with exceptionally light elevators such as the P51. Pull more than +13G and you loose your wings. The real life situation is a little more complicated. Real aircraft are designed with an Ultimate load and In Service design load. Both are for a defined configuration and weight.

The in Service load is the typical G available to the pilot. As long as this the G is not exceeded then no aircraft damage will occur. Exceed the In service G limit then damage of varying degrees may occur .. like bent airframes etc. Exceed the Ultimate load then severe damage will occur typically resulting in structural failure ... like wings coming off etc.Typically a safety factor of 1.5 is used. So an Fighter aeroplane with a design In service G limit of say +8G will have an Ultimate load of +12G. As external stores and or weight is increased above the design weight both G limits reduce accordingly. Reduce weight (by dropping bombs or burning fuel etc) and your G limits increase. Bomber and Transport aircraft have G limits much lower than fighters.
So if you abuse the limits you damage the aircraft. Once damaged then its structural integrity is reduced so the ultimate load reduces as well. In other words keep bending the airframe and you will eventually weaken it to the point that very little extra G is required to induce structural failure. A bent airframe wont perform as well either.

The DT team have now simulated this for the first time in IL2. Each aircraft has been given a unique Structural G profile for Ultimate load, In service limit, and dynamic Weight based limits . In addition this is dynamically modified with its own G induced damage profile. The basic Design Ultimate load configuration and weight has been defined as Default load + 100% Fuel. The actual Ultimate design load has been based on Historical values where they are known and guesstimation where they are not known. In broad brush terms for fighters have an Ultimate design load of +12G with an In service limit of +8G. Lets abbreviate this to 8G/12G

How does this work in game ? You take your stock standard Fighter MK 1 with Default armament +100% Fuel your limits are +8G/+12G. You add 2 x 500lbs bombs. your limits now reduce to 5G/8G. So prior to the target you need to be a little more careful with your aeroplane. Lets say pre target you pull + 6G, you have exceeded the In service limit, you will hear a damage sound cue and suffer a slight aerodynamic penalty. In addition your G limits have now reduced to say 4G/6G. (Bust these again and further aerodynamic penalties and further reductions will apply). You progress to the target and release your bombs. Since the weight is reduced your limits will increase but since you already bent the airframe you wont get back your original limits. You might then get say +6G/+9G. As you can see if you keep abusing the limits you will end with a very weakened airframe.

In the case of heavy bombers G limits will prevent any real aerobatic manoeuvers. You will still be able to evade quite well but you wont be able to BFM with aeroplanes like the A20 anymore. Bombers will be just that: Bombers. G limits will be applicable to AI planes as well and they will fly in a more realistic way too.

Is G displayed? Unless the aircraft in game is equipped with a G meter then no. So you will need to re think how you fly. Random snatches particularly at high speeds are going to hurt .... just as they do in real life. You will need to be aware of Corner speeds because any time you are faster than Corner speed you run the risk of an Over G event. (We are yet to finalise the display side of things)

"Each aircraft has been given a unique Structural G profile for Ultimate load, In service limit, and dynamic Weight based limits "

[bf-110]

Is Daidalos Team only working on planes,physics and maps are you planning to add ground objects and vehicles?

[WTE_Galway]

wow ... do the threads here get off topic or what Maybe start a new topic to avoid the thread getting hijacked guys.

Aside from anything else their may be other people with knowledge on specialized topics that would contribute if it was a separate thread


Not to matter ... one question i have ... when/where can we get a hold of the voids or skin templates for the new aircraft ?

[Adwark]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Do you have any evidence that the DH Mosquito was designed to lower G-loading standards than similar metal-construction aircraft? If you do, I'd like to see it.

Here is two links http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Im...oFB6Manual.pdf see chapter 52.

Second http://books.google.lv/books?id=Sfwq...ations&f=false .

Both in English.

[Hawker17]

Team Daidalos, will the trigger functionality be available in patch 4.10 or in future patches?

Thanks for your hard work.