The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe. - Page 77

kendo65 · #**761** 09-30-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adonys

you guys are right, I'm sorry, the tone I've used wasn't proper, and I'm sorry for that, I've got carried away

yet.. those are facts, battles the english had lost. and I don't have anything against them, I've even lived in London for a year and a half, and maybe I'll live even more in the future. there's no shame in losing, as long as you fought with all you strength and gave your best.

also, let's not forget this is a game, and we all are united in here by the same thing we have in common: passion for WWII flight sims.

sons can not be blamed of the sins of their fathers and history is history, and can not be changed. we can just learn it true, to avoid doing the same mistakes again in the future.

Fair play to you for posting this. I think a few of us have had moments on this thread where the red mists have descended (myself included).

I just want to say that I think we all need to learn to let others have their own opinions on this matter. I don't have any problems with Stern and others holding different views from my own so long as they allow me the same freedom.

Also, holding the view that Britain actually did achieve something important in the BOB doesn't at all imply that many of us here think Britain won the war single-handedly or possessed overall superior military prowess to the other nations involved. By most reckoning Germany had the most formidable armed forces in terms of quality of equipment, leadership, tactics, etc.

Anyway things got a little out of hand in this thread. Hopefully the patch may appear today and we can all get back to the game.

Sternjaeger II · #**762** 09-30-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendo65

Fair play to you for posting this. I think a few of us have had moments on this thread where the red mists have descended (myself included).

I just want to say that I think we all need to learn to let others have their own opinions on this matter. I don't have any problems with Stern and others holding different views from my own so long as they allow me the same freedom.

Also, holding the view that Britain actually did achieve something important in the BOB doesn't at all imply that many of us here think Britain won the war single-handedly or possessed overall superior military prowess to the other nations involved. By most reckoning Germany had the most formidable armed forces in terms of quality of equipment, leadership, tactics, etc.

Anyway things got a little out of hand in this thread. Hopefully the patch may appear today and we can all get back to the game.

Absolutely. I have no problem with any of you guys either on the matter, I respect your opinion and see your point of view, I'm not in total denial!

I suppose I'm a bit scared by how we manage to justify our atrocities "for the sake of the greater good", but firmly condemn other when they do it.

There's no perfection in this world, no absolute good and bad, that's what prompts my attitude towards assessment of historical events, it really has nothing to do with nationalism.

The thread has dangerously derailed more than once, but I'm surprised how far we got with this "hot topic" without getting banned/flamed/stabbed

ATAG_Dutch · #**763** 09-30-2011, 03:44 PM

Well, as hostilities appear to have been suspended, maybe it's time for a short video intermission.

It's only at 360p so I wouldn't bother with full screen.

Respectfully dedicated to all contributors to the thread, and I never professed to be unbiased myself, by Jingo!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6RnzoGXMdU

MB_Avro_UK · #**764** 09-30-2011, 08:27 PM

Hi all,

You know what's not been mentioned so far? And it's a positive.

Neither side shot at parachuting airmen. There was some sort of mutual respect.

Any examples?

Perhaps 'Total War' was not part of the language then?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

adonys · #**765** 09-30-2011, 08:43 PM

Shooting parachutes no.. but I remember I've read some accounts saying that the brits were destroying the german life-buoys to not allow the germans to recover pilots downed into the Channel.

MB_Avro_UK · #**766** 09-30-2011, 09:25 PM

The life-buoys didn't work. Their mooring chains broke and they were carried away by the sea currents.

Maybe you are thinking about the luftwaffe rescue float planes for downed airmen? Such as the He-59?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

arthursmedley · #**767** 09-30-2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

Hi all,

You know what's not been mentioned so far? And it's a positive.

Neither side shot at parachuting airmen. There was some sort of mutual respect.

Any examples?

Perhaps 'Total War' was not part of the language then?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Dowding wanted to order his pilots to shoot 'chutes but Churchill vetoed it.

fruitbat · #**768** 09-30-2011, 09:44 PM

it happened, from both sides from time to time. i've certainly read references to it regarding both sides.

theres also the nice taped conversations of a few Germans shot down during the BoB describing how they enjoyed shooting at houses, buses etc. I have no doubt in my mind that it happened the other way around at the end of the war.

you can still read the transcripts of these lovely people who didn't realise they were being taped.

war brings out the utter shit in some people. on all sides.

a couple of pleasant exerts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...y-2263579.html

TomcatViP · #**769** 10-01-2011, 12:35 AM

I don't want to be moralistic but it's hard to compare the brutality of the Axis forces and the deaths involved in teh liberation of those countries.

Pls see the diag there :

http://warchronicle.com/numbers/WWII/deaths.htm

8M killed by the allies including 1.6 M civilians causalities (yes far too much)

40M by the Axis regimes including 25.6M of civilians ! (and those countries did not really have strategic bomber forces)

Obviously you don't kill 40M of ppl just by signing your name on an order form (at that time there was no nuke to be feared). Millions of others had to be committed in the blood bath.

Madfish · #**770** 10-01-2011, 02:26 AM

I don't think morals are a solution. There will always be opinions anyways. In fact if you just go by numbers then you'd have to face the issue of our planet being overpopulated even though we had those wars anyways. And that is not an excuse but it's an indicator of what will happen again: conflicts!

Earth doesn't have unlimited rescources. There may be countries or individuals who are rich, e.g. have huge territories etc. but as long as they sit on it and don't distribute it there will be crime and there will be wars. Simple as that.

Also keep in mind that almost a billion is in grave danger of starvation with about 5 million dying yearly. So all cruelties of the war aside the real killers out there are usually something the developed countries don't care about. We sit on our wealth and try to defend, expand and exploit.

From that perspective it doesn't even matter what happened during the war or who won what battle - if you want to be moralistic either defend earth and rid if from it's overpopulation or try to save these people dying from hunger. Of course you could add those who die from desease, exploitation and crimes etc. as well. It's just such a complex task that starting and fighting wars seems to be easier and certainly more lucrative to the people behind the wars. The industry e.g.