Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[lane]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

Knocks the air out of Eugene's argument of 16 squadrons.

"By July 31 1940, there 384 Spitfires serving in 19 squadrons using 100 octane fuel."

Pity the article doesn't mention the number of Hurricanes using 100 octane fuel.

Same thoughts here regarding no mention of Hurricanes... Spitfires are covered though

[Al Schlageter]

Will we are waiting for Eugene to post his RAF OoB, here is the OoB for 53 Spitfire and Hurrican squadrons, from the official RAF site.

1 Squadron

Stations: Tangmere 23 June 1940, Northolt 1 August 1940, Wittering 9 September 1940

3 Squadron

Stations: Wick 23 May 1940, Castletown 2 September 1940, Turnhouse 14 September 1940, Dyce 9 October 1940, Castletown 12 October 1940

17 Squadron

Stations: Debden 19 June 1940, Tangmere 19 August 1940, Debden 2 September 1940, Martlesham Heath 8 October 1940

19 Squadron

Stations: Fowlmere 25 January 1940, Duxford 3 July 1940, Fowlmere 24 July 1940, Duxford 30 October 1940

32 Squadron

Stations: Biggin Hill 4 June 1940, Acklington 28 August 1940

41 Squadron

Stations: Catterick 8 June 1940, Hornchurch 26 July 1940, Catterick 8 August 1940, Hornchurch 3 September 1940

43 Squadron

Stations: Tangmere 31 May 1940, Northolt (D) 23 July 1940 to 1 August 1940, Usworth 8 September 1940

46 Squadron

Stations: Digby 13 June 1940, Duxford 18 August 1940, Digby 19 August 1940, Stapleford Tawney 1 September 1940

54 Squadron

Stations: Rochford 25 June 1940, Hornchurch 24 July 1940, Catterick 28 July 1940, Hornchurch 8 August 1940, Catterick 3 September 1940

56 Squadron

Stations: North Weald 4 June 1940, Boscombe Down 1 September 1940

64 Squadron

Stations: Kenley 16 May 1940, Leconfield 19 August 1940, Boscombe Down 1 September 1940, Biggin Hill 13 October 1940, Coltishall 15 October 1940

65 Squadron

Stations: Hornchurch 5 June 1940, Turnhouse 28 August 1940

66 Squadron

Stations: Coltishall 29 May 1940, Kenley 3 September 1940, Gravesend 11 September 1940, West Malling 30 October 1940

72 Squadron

Stations: Acklington 6 June 1940, Biggin Hill 31 August 1940, Croydon 1 September 1940, Biggin Hill 14 September 1940, Coltishall 13 October 1940, Matlask 30 October 1940

73 Squadron

Stations: Church Fenton 18 June 1940, Castle Camps 5 September 1940

74 Squadron

Stations: Hornchurch 25 June 1940, Wittering 14 August 1940, Kirton-in-Lindsey 21 August 1940, Coltishall 9 September 1940, Biggin Hill 15 October 1940

79 Squadron

stations: Biggin Hill 5 June 1940, Hawkinge 2 July 1940, Sealand 11 July 1940, Acklington 13 July 1940, Biggin Hill 27 August 1940, Pembrey 8 September 1940

85 Squadron

Stations: Debden 22 May 1940, Croydon 19 August 1940, Castle Camps 3 September 1940, Church Fenton 5 September 1940, Kirton-in-Lindsey 23 October 1940

87 Squadron

Stations: Church Fenton 26 May 1940, Exeter 5 July 1940

92 Squadron

Stations: Pembrey 18 June 1940, Biggin Hill 8 September 1940

111 Squadron

Stations: Croydon 4 June 1940, Debden 19 August 1940, Croydon 3 September 1940, Drem 8 September 1940

145 Squadron

Stations: Tangmere 10 May 1940, Westhampnett 31 July 1940, Drem 14 August 1940, Dyce 31 August 1940, Tangmere 9 October 1940

151 Squadron

Stations: North Weald 20 May 1940, Stapleford Tawney 29 August 1940, Digby 1 September 1940

152 Squadron

Stations: Arklington 1 October 1939, Warmwell 12 July 1940

213 Squadron

Stations: Arklington 1 October 1939, Warmwell 12 July 1940

222 Squadron

Stations: Kirton in Lindsay 4 June 1939, Hornchurch 29 August 1940

229 Squadron

Stations: Wittering 26 June 1940, Northolt 9 September 1940

232 Squadron

Stations: Sumburgh 17 July 1940, Castletown 18 September 1940, Skitten 13 October 1940, Drem 24 October 1940

234 Squadron

Stations: Arklington 1 October 1939, Warmwell 12 July 1940

238 Squadron

Stations: Middle Wallop 20 June 1940, St Eval 14 August 1940, Middle Wallop 10 September 1940, Chilbolton 30 September 1940

242 Squadron

Stations: Aldergrove 20 July 1940

249 Squadron

Stations: Leconfield 18 May 1940, Church Fenton 8 July 1940, Boscombe Down 14 August 1940, North Weald 1 September 1940

253 Squadron

Stations: Kirton-in-Lindsey 24 May 1940, Turnhouse 21 July 1940, Prestwick 23 August 1940, Kenley (A) 29 August 1940, Kenley (G) 16 September 1940

257 Squadron

Stations: Arklington 1 October 1939, Warmwell 12 July 1940

263 Squadron

Stations: Grangemouth 28 June 1940, Drem 2 September 1940

266 Squadron

Stations: Wittering (D) 7 April 1940, Wittering (C) 14 May 1940, Tangmere 9 August 1940, Eastchurch 12 August 1940, Hornchurch 14 August 1940, Wittering 21 August 1940

302 Squadron

Stations: Leconfield 13 July 1940, Northolt 11 October 1940

303 Squadron

Stations: Northolt 22 July 1940, Leconfield 11 October 1940

310 Squadron

Stations: Duxford 10 July 1940

312 Squadron

Stations: Duxford 29 August 1940, Speke 26 September 1940

401 Squadron

Stations: Middle Wallop 21 June 1940, Croydon July 1940, Northolt Mid-August 1940, Prestwick 11 October 1940

501 Squadron

Stations: Croydon 21 June 1940, Middle Wallop 4 July 1940, Gravesend 25 July 1940, Kenley 10 September 1940

504 Squadron

Stations: Castletown 21 June 1940, Catterick 1 September 1940, Hendon 5 September 1940, Filton 26 September 1940

601 Squadron

Stations: Tangmere 17 June 1940, Debden 19 August 1940, Tangmere 2 September 1940, Exeter 7 September 1940

602 Squadron

Stations: Drem 28 May 1940, Westhampnett 13 August 1940

603 Squadron

Stations: Turnhouse 5 May 1940, Hornchurch 27 August 1940

605 Squadron

Stations: Drem 28 May 1940, Croydon 7 September 1940

607 Squadron

Stations: Usworth 5 June 1940, Tangmere 1 September 1940, Turnhouse 10 October 1940

609 Squadron

Stations: Northolt 19 May 1940, Middle Wallop 5 July 1940

610 Squadron

Stations: Gravesend 26 May 1940, Biggin Hill 2 July 1940, Acklington 31 August 1940

611 Squadron

Stations: Digby 10 October 1939

615 Squadron

Stations: Kenley 20 May 1940, Prestwick 29 August 1940, Northolt 10 October 1940

616 Squadron

Stations: Leconfield 6 June 1940, Kenley 19 August 1940, Coltishall 3 September 1940, Kirton-in-Lindsey 9 September 1940

[Glider]

check my posting 746 it might of of use

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Glider

check my posting 746 it might of of use

I saw it Glider. Will be interesting to compare with what Eugene posts.

[Flanker35M]

S!

The informational/educational value of this thread gets watered by you guys throwing insults and sticking to whatever agenda you might have. I found the discussion very interesting but too much "barbi/eugene/whatever" crap cluttering the info presented. Everyone wants the last word..But luckily can filter the crap and digest on the actual data hidden between the ePeen contests and insults

[winny]

Originally Posted by Glider

Kurfurst
My case is outlined in the posts 681/682 that cover my belief in the definition of the words select. It shows the development path of the process. I recognise that you will never agree with me or I with you but that isn't important.
What is important is that third parties see the arguments and evidence for both and are able to make up their own mind.

All I am asking you again is to support or even define your case. You believe that select is a limited number that is clear, but what you believe that number to be we don't know. Is it the 16 + 2, is it the 30+ squadrons we have combat records for, is it something between the two, is it simply less than 100% of fighter the squadrons? Tell us what is your belief

So lets start with something simple:-

a) How many RAF fighter squadrons do you belive used 100 Octane in the BOB?
b) How do you support that view?

This is the most important post in the entire thread.

I have read it all and I still don't know what Kur's actual view on this is.

So come on K... What is your main point? Other than you're right and everyone else is wrong?

[Osprey]

Looks like Kurfurst got permanently banned from Wikipedia. If you read into this he upset a lot of respected editors by constantly editing articles. They frequently mention an agenda that he has, it would be quite an amusing read if these weren't real people he was wasting the time of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...d_for_Kurfurst

[ACE-OF-ACES]

That does not suprise me at all.. Other than it took this long for wiki to ban him

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Some people like our good Hungarian friend Kurfurst-Barbarossa-Isegrim's reputations precede them in flight sim and other flight discussion forums....Best to say no more and leave it at that.

I'll refrain from saying anything disparaging as this plays into their hands and is not necessary anyway....Glider in particular has conducted himself remarkably well and very gracefully in this very one sided 'discussion' (AKA absolute Naysayer hammering) in which for no good or justifiable reason whatsoever he has already been quite outrageously dubbed a 'Liar' by a certain party, 99.9% of people can see this is most certainly not so, carry on mate.

Don't play the 'tit for tat' game with some people, even when provoked. Whatever the temptation. You are better than me because I would have lost my rag a LONG time ago lol....I can have a very short fuse at times, its a flaw, and that is why I am not participating this time around. That's what some want, a shutdown suits these people to a T, because they have nothing else. Nobody needs any help here anyway...doing a grand job.

Some people, naming no names, just want to watch the world burn. They have no interest in the actual truth of a matter, still less in objectivity; the concept of intellectual honesty and rigour is an alien one, and the whole MO can be summed up as follows.

And thus in his considered view, what does not suit....Cannot be true.

Fortunately, for our purpose it really does not matter one jot what some one like this 'thinks' (again naming no names, and not necessarily here ).....when they are so patently wrong and consistently and embarrassingly made to look very foolish and debunked.*

Keep up the good work chaps, and keep up the demolition job with the trusty sword and shield of corroborated Primary and secondary source evidence and Truth, the avalanche of which is very apparent and compelling to any reasonable person reading this thread. Bravo.

I learned long ago that trying to have a 'reasonable debate' with some people (naming no names) is effectively impossible when they are absolutely devoid of reason themselves. Some people still think the Earth is flat (no, I'm not one of them. ) and that Mankind co-existed with Dinosaurs etc. What can you do?

Don't worry about it. Be happy.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

ahh, just wondered why you copy/pasted those!

By the way Osprey, i love the specs of your computer, if only i had the money

Hard work and dedication and such a beast could be yours. Mine is watercooled Look at these visuals!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTyyps_cCk