Pilot kill after pilot kill. How do they do it??

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Ataros

I think it can not stop tungsten AP rounds. If you load 100% AP this makes pilot completely unprotected, as if he sits in the air without any cover I guess. Thus PK comes with the first bullet that hits aircraft body.

And how many Tungsten rounds were used historically? Are you suggesting this was the standard loadout for the 7.92mm MG's?

I don't think so. This was a relatively rare strategic metal, not available in Germany, usually reserved for application in Anti-Tank rounds, in this time period for the 37mm and later for the 50mm.

It's typical of a 1C product that you have these options in terms of loadout or aircraft, which can be selected without any penalty or restriction, and which completely unbalance the game.

So you have the situation whereby people are flying E-1's in preference to E-3's because the armament is more effective... Complete nonsense.

Why did the historical Luftwaffe replace the wing 7.92's with 20mm if they were no more effective?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by He111

In reality, aricraft weren't armoured, except for IL2 (cannot wait ) .. any well aimed shots are going to hit the pilot especially for early, unarmoured aircraft.

Plus, i have force-feedback joystick, trying to out-fly someone without a FF would probably be futile ??? yes ? no ?

Cannot wait for the AI to be fixed so historic offline campaigns can be made ..

.

Spitfire and Hurricane both had seat back armour standard after July of 1940, this was not the Soviet airforce.

The Hurricane and Spitfires are shown as having the weight of an aircraft with pilot and fuel tank armour.

and as far as the pk after pk after pk it can be done, but in my exp even talking to alot of good flyers only way to get a 95% pk like that is to make the damage area of your bullet larger and you can hit them in the wing and get a pk.

and yes i have flown both blue and red and in 46 and in clod im not bad i can also prove that it is easy to cheat but that backfired on me before and not goin that rout again.

i do know that some of the people mr x fly's with have been kicked and band from servers for cheating in 1946.

i look at it as birds of a feather flock together LOL

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Spitfire and Hurricane both had seat back armour standard after July of 1940, this was not the Soviet airforce.

The Hurricane and Spitfires are shown as having the weight of an aircraft with armour.

Yes from behind, but as the reds know they have a superior turn rate which means that the default move is almost always to pull back on the stick to try and get away from the 109 which just puts it at the perfect angle to make all that lovely armour irrelevant

[BadAim]

I love all this talk of cheating. I have been flying online for several years and have never seen anything that I consider cheating. Maybe that's because I wouldn't consider cheating? Hmmmmmm.

[aus3620]

My two bobs worth! Having been on the wrong end of MK MR X's gunnery a number of times, I take my hat off to him. His videos show that it is no fluke, in red or blue planes. Obviously he has invested considerable hours of thoughtful practice to get that good.

Flying with my squad I have experienced some success against MK MR X - albeit he was flying Red (latest patch) and our blue flight outnumbered the red aircraft. So even the best individual flyer can be overcome by a team.

Appreciate that hacking code to turn one's aircraft into an uber-plane is probably not impossible. But if you were anywhere near as good as the videos attest why would you bother.

[SlipBall]

The fact is that they are just good pilots...probably don't post much, just keep flying developing their skills. From the example vids, one would conclude that the pilot has very good tracking skills/ability to position himself. He does just as well when he is flying Red, go figure

[AbortedMan]

Same here BadAim, especially in a simulator, but people are strange.

It's be foolish to assume there are no cheats in an online game, in what is essentially an uncontrolled environment (coding-wise) such as Cliffs of Dover.

I've seen cheaters in ArmA2 cooperative missions, even...a game that's about the activity of teamwork, not kills.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

An acknowledged expert on Weapons in general, and Air to Air weapons specifically is Anthony Williams, who has been published multiple times and has a website here:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/miltech.htm

On the site is an article which deals specifically with the armament of the different sides in the Battle of Britain, and which goes into detail on the effectiveness of these weapons.

There is ZERO mention of tungsten cored 7.92mm ammunition being readily available. The article does mention the 20mm M-Geschoss round.

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/BoB.htm

An analysis of the effectiveness of the British 7.7mm and German 7.92mm rounds shows them as similar in armour penetration.

A British study during the same period found the effectiveness of these light MG rounds in penetrating pilot armour was poor:

From Mr. Williams article:

Tests by the RAF indicated that both the .303 and 7.92mm AP bullets had some problems penetrating the structure of the relatively small and light Blenheim bomber. Both guns were fired at a range of 200 yards (180m) through the rear fuselage at the 4 mm armour plate protecting the rear gunner, which was angled at 60º to the line of fire. The results were poor; only 33% of the .303" rounds reached the armour (the rest being deflected or absorbed by the structure) and 6% penetrated it. In contrast, only 23% of the 7.92 mm bullets reached the armour, and just 1% penetrated.

No mention of tungsten core bullets ripping through pilot armour there.

Wikipedia in reference 7.92mm AP rounds notes:

The most common type of armor-piercing round had a hardened-steel core with plated-steel jacket and weighed 11.5 grams (177 gr). Other types appeared which used tungsten carbide and combinations for cores.

No indication as to when tungsten rounds were available, and clear indication those which may have had tungsten in the core were rare.

For the Germans to have been given unlimited numbers of 'magic bullets' is clearly wrong.

But just another one of the many botched aspects of this Sim.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Torian

...PK after PK after PK and often in quick succession... how even a good pilot can pull this off 95% of the time LEGITIMATELY ? Please help me out.

Well we apparently now have an answer for the OP's question...

The German 'Magic' Tungsten round.