New Mod Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Babies!

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

About ents i though and it`s ok as you said, and they initiative is so low, almost every turn act last so they need something positive. Nice idea for it.

Yah, they were worthless before, and now they still have weakness to fire so you can burn them with reckless abandon, but now they are much better!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

For enemy heroes lowering my resistances it`s ok in general, makes game harder later in game (elven lands, demonis, gray wastelands), but problem is there is few items/kid`s to protect your army with resistances, and even they are not enough. As i mentioned for Sonya dryad hero in elf lands 29 int, lowered my magic res by 60%, double lightning cast/turn (she even cast lightning on my invisible inquisitors ???), and 40 mana regen/turn it`s not question of tactics, it only question how many black dragons you can lead to beat the bitch(even red dragons got ripped to shreds against her)

This is what makes it tough! I'll look into the invisibile inquisitor thing, I'm not sure what the rules are supposed to be with it, but I think they should not be able to be the primary target, but I think it is okay if they get zapped as an ancillary target (lightning jumps are not sight based).

By the way, I think I have noticed the AI having a slightly different set of rules with targeting units with spells, kind of like how their Black Dragon's can take a burn path that's more optimal than we can manually.

The thing about the later part of the game is it becomes a little bit more rock, scissors, paper and you can be using units that have a weakness in a certain resistance and then it will get exposed.

This is how we all play as well - we exploit the weaknesses of our opponents (how many Ghosts did you generate)?

Actually though, Neoka has +20% Magic Resistance, and then the Mirror Armor (or whatever its called) is another +15 I think. Also, I think Neoka has a baby or two with Resistance which is another +5 Resist All.

So this is what I was referring to before.

You know, the strategy for all the King's Bounty games has been find a group of units you like and then you pretty much stick with them for most of the game. Now you have to strategize and the wives and children can help you get past tough battles and Sonya (if memory serves) is only a Level 23 hero. Imagine when you face a triple caster! Yikes! I want my mommy!

Also, I hope you have a plan to get (or already have) Higher Magic - that will turn you into a real mage! You'll get some double casting, too!

Remember I said no loss on Impossible is going to be really hard now and it might not even be doable - I haven't been able to do it!

I will admit, though, that it hasn't been my primary focus since I have to play test and debug all the new aspects that I've added.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

I thought about switching to orcelyn to try her out, but i`m mage with low att and lds, and orcs are mainly oriented to brute force so i think it wouldnt be interesting. And i already spend to much runes on dark commander skill, so i`ll w8 for xeona to switch wife (i have savegame so i`ll try orcelyn also just to get 4 kids to see how it turn out, but my main play is undead later going to demons).

Diana and Neoka might be good go betweens before Xe and they'll help you with your magic deficiencies if your Undead are having too much trouble. That's where Rina's a bit weak later in the game - she doesn't help out a mage too much.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Couple of questions :
1) I crosschecked kid`s and feanora/gerda/neoka dont have any kind with addexp for hero or spirits. Rina have 2, also xeona and other have 1. Any plan to even kid`s out so every wife have at least 1 for this bonus ?

You know, unfortunately, since the babies' skills are based on their HOMM3 skills and in that game certain heroes with certain skillsets dominated a town and since some of the children choices seem a really good match for certain wives it worked out that way.

Nonetheless, I've recently considered "baby swaps" where for example, I could maybe swap a baby between two wives if it wouldn't be totally inconceivable (i.e. two human babies could probably be swapped). For example, Mirabella's Christian could probably be swapped to Neoka, but I'd have to figure out a good Neoka baby to give to Mirabella in exchange. Xeona has the most babies because of the Minotaurs, and all the human babies are perfect fits for her so I can't really move hers.

Sooner or later you'll probably come across Clancy who has bonuses to Unicorns, but is a Gerda baby. You'll say what? But as it turns out, Clancy in HOMM3 is a Dwarf with bonuses to Unicorns. So unfortunately Clancy is Gerda's baby and has a Unicorn Bonus. Sorry, just the way it is as I can't have you and Neoka have a Dwarf baby! Well, unless we use the stork story again, but I think we've already used that twice and someone's going to figure out that something funny is going on with this stork!

Once again, I'm also limited by trying to stay true to their original HOMM3 bonuses, but I'll look into evening things out more if it makes sense.

I'm not sure if you looked at my skill list, but Tactics is not the only skill that didn't translate over well from HOMM3 to KB. There's also Scouting - that might be a good one since you scout an enemies weakness, although I'd probably have that one drop enemy defense, for example. There are also a few others - I just haven't had a chance to review yet, but will soon!

Also don't forget that the Mage gets a 50% spirit experience penalty compared to a Warrior (that's standard game).

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

2) And have you figured out how to add some kid rage inflow bonus ?

No - I haven't had a chance to look into that yet, but I will!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

3) Thought`s for adding -res% for destroyer skill ? like enemy hero`s obviously have. I have 31int, with 3rd lvl destroyer skill ,and geyser spell only 900-1800 dmg. Low comparing to 29 int sonya`s devestating my army earlier. I know how to do it, but you already changed some enemy heroes, so i ask what you think.

You know, I actually wanted the enemy heroes' Destroyer skill to work just like yours. Unfortunately, the mods {...} section is where the Destroyer skill bonuses are implemented and you cannot use such a section with enemy heroes!

So I was taken aback for a while about what to do with it and then I thought of the -resistance bonus. So I think with Destroyer it's either one way or the other, but not both. The problem arises is that only one resistance is effected, so with your hero I would have had to have you pick a resistance that you wanted to use as your -resistance. I'd need to add a dialog or something like that which I really don't know how to do.

So I think the way Destroyer works is fine for both your and the enemy heroes - use more Divine Armor or troops with better resistance to help you with those enemies.

Also, you'll find that you're Geyser will keep increasing in power and when you think about it 900-1800 * 8 (a total of 7200 to 14400 ignoring defense and resistance) is pretty good damage! And you should be able to get over 30 Intellect if you focus your level up points into it - remember I said you might want to choose other stats over Leadership?

I think you can see how there is much more strategy now, you can't just stick with the same group of units and expect to waltz through the game.

I hope you're having fun!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

4) how`s going changing necro call to resurrect undead units, instead using order spell for it. it doesnt seem right it`s used on living units ,not corpses I have necro call long time ago but almost never use it.

Okay - that's a good point, I guess that's why I used Resurrect, but I'll see if there's a way to make Necro Call act like Resurrect when you get Necromancy Level 1. If I can't figure it out, then I'll just stick with Resurrect with a 50% penalty for Undead.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

5) you missed vampires to warrior iron fist skill.

You know, I left them off because I considered them not to be Warriors, which is what Iron Fist skill is supposed to help. Skeleton Warriors and Zombies are the Undead's Warriors, but I thought that the Vampires were something different (Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise - come on!) - same as Ghosts. Vampires don't even use a sword or axe, they just have that slender wand thing (or whatever it is) so that's why I left them off.

Well good comments as always, I probably won't be able to do much tonight (Monday Night Football), but hopefully Tuesday or Wednesday I'll get back to checking stuff.

In the mean time keep playing and try to devise some new strategies to deal with some of these tough hereos! That's the fun part of the game with my mod!

/C\/C\

[ShuiMienLung]

"Vampires don't even use a sword or axe, they just have that slender wand thing (or whatever it is) so that's why I left them off."

It's called a rapier.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Hah! Thanks! I guess I don't have the best eyeballs. So that makes them more like the captain of a pirate ship, right!

[Fatt_Shade]

1) invisibility spell i also saw enemy hero cast it and still see his unit, so i quess it`s some bug with spell in general.
I got 1800 ghosts, and 800 cursed before i stopped using them in battle
No charna`s unlimited retaliation isn`t cheat at all
And my higher magic is all good until i meet enemy units with 40% res all, with heroes even worse because enemy units 25% higher all stats. That`s why i said to give some kid`s with lowering enemy res(1 kid/wife would be nice to hope for).
2) Yea i also now think between neoka/diana for their kid`s with int%, and attack_spell%. But i already used so much runes in dark commander (3rd lvl and just after clearing dwarf lands got to demonis and bought full undead army.
3) I get that you wanted to get homm3 heroes in this game, and i said it before it`s great idea, and great mod. But i asked all wives to be in some way balanced in chance to get kids with similar bonuses (for races not same bonus for each kid).
4) i did -enemy res% in CW in fire mage medal, so i say it`s no problem, just wanted to see how will ppl answer to see how to edit destroyer skill.
I also took almost every lvl int/mana choices insted lds, so i have nice int so far but still not making some heavy dmg with spells
5) as for vampires, they are melee units using sword to attack, so i thought they should be in iron fist. you placed there all other humanoid creature in game 1-4lvl`s so why not vampires Horseman attack with lance from horseback, they also dont use sword/axe what about them? And also missed peasants for that skill, because we all know how much peasants can be useful in latgame

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

1) invisibility spell i also saw enemy hero cast it and still see his unit, so i quess it`s some bug with spell in general.

You know that's the way it works - I think it was probably Enchanted Hero that cast it on that particular unit (that is fairly common).

There is actually AI code for using the Invisibility spell, but I don't think I've ever seen the computer use it. It might just be that they don't have the spell in their spell list. I'll have to see if I gave any enemy heroes Invisibility now that I think about it...

You can't attack the computer's invisible units, though. I wonder if I could figure out how to make them completely invisible when its the computer's units so you can't see them.

Hmmm... more things to add to my list to check!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

I got 1800 ghosts, and 800 cursed before i stopped using them in battle
No charna`s unlimited retaliation isn`t cheat at all

I'm really glad you did that - that's the only way to see if a new idea is a good idea!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

And my higher magic is all good until i meet enemy units with 40% res all, with heroes even worse because enemy units 25% higher all stats. That`s why i said to give some kid`s with lowering enemy res(1 kid/wife would be nice to hope for).

I'll see what I can do with the HOMM3 Skills with no obvious translation - maybe Eagle Eye is a good candidate for -res. Hmmm...

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

2) Yea i also now think between neoka/diana for their kid`s with int%, and attack_spell%. But i already used so much runes in dark commander (3rd lvl and just after clearing dwarf lands got to demonis and bought full undead army.

Okay - who you got now? Do you still use your Ghosts? Also, I haven't gotten to fighting Bone Dragons yet, but when I do I think I'm going to add the spells I listed a few pages back to them on their attack...

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

3) I get that you wanted to get homm3 heroes in this game, and i said it before it`s great idea, and great mod. But i asked all wives to be in some way balanced in chance to get kids with similar bonuses (for races not same bonus for each kid).

I'll see what I can do about a little "cross-pollination" and see if I can do some baby switching to help disperse the abilities a little bit better...

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

4) i did -enemy res% in CW in fire mage medal, so i say it`s no problem, just wanted to see how will ppl answer to see how to edit destroyer skill.
I also took almost every lvl int/mana choices insted lds, so i have nice int so far but still not making some heavy dmg with spells

Don't worry - hopefully you'll get a Xe baby (or two) with some increase in spell power.

By the way, which level are you now and where's your mana and intellect at? Just curious...

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

5) as for vampires, they are melee units using sword to attack, so i thought they should be in iron fist. you placed there all other humanoid creature in game 1-4lvl`s so why not vampires Horseman attack with lance from horseback, they also dont use sword/axe what about them? And also missed peasants for that skill, because we all know how much peasants can be useful in latgame

Yah, you know I didn't consider Peasants warriors either - they're ... ... Peasants!!!

Horseman are knights on horses. I'll think about the Peasants and Vamps some more even though they don't seem like real warriors to me...

By the way, where are you know in the game? Have you made it to the Lands of Death yet and fought Karrador?

Sounds like you're having fun and I'll have a good list of comments from your playthrough to make it better!

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

For enemy heroes lowering my resistances it`s ok in general, makes game harder later in game (elven lands, demonis, gray wastelands), but problem is there is few items/kid`s to protect your army with resistances, and even they are not enough.

I forgot about the babies with Air, Earth, Fire, and Water Resistance - these translated over such that:

Air - Magic Resistance
Earth - Physical Resistance
Fire - Fire Resistance - duh!
Water - Poison Resistance

So here's the wife / baby list of those babies with those skills:

Feanora: Adrienne with Expert Fire Magic (she gets a big fire resist bonus because of her Expert Fire Magic, by the way, she's a human Witch). Fire Resistance: +42%.
Gerda: Grindan and Labetha both with Basic Earth Magic (Grindan is a Dwarf Elementalist, but Labetha is a human Elementalist). Physical Resistance: +16% (each).
Diana: Brissa and Aenain both with Basic Air Magic (both babies are Genie Elementalists so I can't switch them from Diana). Magic Resistance: +18% (each).
Neoka: Ciele and Gelare both with Basic Water Magic (both babies are Elf Elementalists so I can't switch them from Neoka). Poison Resistance: +20% (each).
Xeona: Luna and Inteus with Basic Fire Magic (both babies are human Elementalists). Fire Resistance: +20% (each).

You'll notice that most of them are Elementalists, but I actually did a pretty good job dispersing them (kind of like the Planeswalkers).

Anyway, just wanted to mention them since we forgot about them...

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

Okay, I've been reviewing some of the HOMM3 Skills and what I did with bonuses that had no analog in King's Bounty.

Here is the current list of skills I'm considering changing:

HOMM3 Tactics: Attack / Defense: Skill Level * Child Level = +%

I'm thinking of changing this such that:

1. Basic Tactics: -1 Speed or Initiative of Enemy Units
2. Advanced Tactics: -1 Speed AND Initiative of Enemy Units

For Basic Tactics I'd pick speed first, then if another child with the same wife had Basic Tactics I'd then pick initiative.

There are plenty of items / babies that add to Attack / Defense (although few to both) so I think this would be better. Also for enemy heroes with King's Bounty Tactics I essentially had them drop your speed so this would be in line with what I did with them.

There are currently 17 children with Basic Tactics and 1 with Advanced Tactics.

Example 1: Erdamon (Orcelyn) Basic Tactics: -1 Speed or Initiative
Example 2: Boragus (Orcelyn) Basic Tactics: -1 Initiative or Speed (opposite of Erdaman's selection since same wife)
Example 3: Lacus (Diana) Advanced Tactics: -1 Speed AND Initiative

All wives have at least 1 child with Basic Tactics, while most have 2.


HOMM3 Scouting: Rage: 2 * Skill Level * Child Level = +%
Change to: Enemy Defense: -Skill Level * Child Level = -%

Other stats to consider: Enemy Critical Hit

There are currently 6 children with Basic Scouting and 2 children with Advanced Scouting.

Example 1: Aeris (Neoka) Basic Scouting = -1 * 10 = -10%
Example 2: Fiona (Xeona) Advanced Scouting = -2 * 10 = -20%

Xeona has 2 babies with Advanced Scouting and 1 with Basic Scouting, so probability of getting -40% Enemy Defense: 2 / 27 * 1 / 26 = 0.28% or 1 in 351 games; probability of getting -50% Enemy Defense: 2 / 27 * 1 / 26 * 1 / 25 = 0.0114% or 1 in 8775 games.


HOMM3 Eagle Eye: Intellect: 1.5 * Skill Level * Child Level = +%
Change to: Enemy Resistance (type based on wife): -2 * Skill Level * Child Level = -%

There is 1 child with Basic Eagle Eye and 7 children with advanced Eagle Eye. Once again, there are plenty of items that increase intellect, so this is probably not too bad of a change.

Example 1: Ash (Xeona) Basic Eagle Eye: -2 * 1 * 10 = -20% Fire Resistance.
Example 2: Malcom (Gerda) Advanced Eagle Eye: -2 * 2 * 8 = -32%, but Gerda is Resist All, so divide by 4 for each main (excludes astral) resistance so Enemy Resist All: -8%.

Gerda has two babies with Advanced Eagle Eye, so probably of getting -16% Enemy Resist All: 2 / 19 * 1 / 18 = 0.58% or 1 in 171 games.

That would probably be okay.

At this stage, I'm just considering these, although the Tactics one I think I will change for sure.

You know, another thought that I just had (and would help prevent duplication of child bonuses) is to have an alternate for a skill. For example, Xeona has 5 Children with Basic Tactics. So I could have 1 of the children keep the original bonus!

For example:

HOMM3 Tactics Alternate #1: Attack / Defense: Skill Level * Child Level = +%
HOMM3 Tactics Alternate #2: Basic Tactics: -1 Speed or Initiative of Enemy Units; Advanced Tactics: -1 Speed AND Initiative of Enemy Units

So that way when a wife has multiple children with the same bonus there is an alternate variant of that HOMM3 Skill to avoid overuse of that Skill.

Hmmm... this might be a really good idea!

Let me know your thoughts here - thanks!

/C\/C\

[Fatt_Shade]

Found small miss in wifes.txt for mirabella , in string sp_lead_footmn, `a` missing
Got bored with rina and swapped to neoka, it`s interesting but i`m thinking neoka is better for warrior and huge hordes of not retaliating sprites/dryads and ancient ent teleported in enemy lines to entangle everyone, or all archer 100% crit army. But on other hand neoka have many kids with int related bonuses so it`s a gamble
Orcelyn would be also interesting if orcs werent so inferior compared to their CW edition cousins
But any way this is great mod, and many interesting ideas and solutions.
Still w8ing on some idea for kid with tower lowering stats ( i just tried to suppress dwarf hammer and got my ass handed to me

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Any way to give some kid rage inflow (15% maybe), like warrior rage skill ? I found mana/rage %, and mana inflow in battle_mana,1 (i guess 1 mana per turn in battle), so why not some angry little kid that drives you in rampage during battle for sleepless nights, diaper changing, night feeding

Okay, I just purchased the Spear of Rage so there's already a bonus!

Now just have to find an appropriate skill! I don't think this will be a problem to add this one...

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Found small miss in wifes.txt for mirabella , in string sp_lead_footmn, `a` missing

Great catch! Just corrected it and it'll be in the next update!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Got bored with rina and swapped to neoka, it`s interesting but i`m thinking neoka is better for warrior and huge hordes of not retaliating sprites/dryads and ancient ent teleported in enemy lines to entangle everyone, or all archer 100% crit army. But on other hand neoka have many kids with int related bonuses so it`s a gamble

Bye Rina! Sorry you had to go!

Hello, Neoka! Hopefully you'll have fun with her! Don't forget you have to get the Tree's permission to have kids with her!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Orcelyn would be also interesting if orcs werent so inferior compared to their CW edition cousins

You know I've been toying with the Shaman's Dancing Axes right now. I have a test build where it resurrects Orc allies, then heals allies with the remaining energy, and then damages the remaining enemies with the last bit of energy, but I can't get it to damage the remaining enemies properly (it's either too much or too little and I can't quite figure out how the Attack damage library works). Anyway, that's just an experiment, I want something to happen with the extra energy from the Dancing Axes attack, but I haven't figured out a good solution, yet.

Got any Orc improvement ideas (without adding CW adrenaline)? I was thinking of having the Healing Totem dispel bad spells on your units and might increase the radius +1. The Death Totem I might increase the radius +1 as well and maybe it should do something else.

Hmmm... what to do with those Orcs!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

But any way this is great mod, and many interesting ideas and solutions.

Thanks! Glad you're enjoying it!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Still w8ing on some idea for kid with tower lowering stats ( i just tried to suppress dwarf hammer and got my ass handed to me

Yah, I need to think more about the Towers...

Yep, suppressing items in general is a lot tougher and the Tower's spells are attuned to their allies and you, the enemy! I was actually thinking if I could do the same thing for enemy heroes - hmmm...

I've got Diana now (I basically go in wife order when I play: Rina -> Feanora -> Mirabella -> Gerda -> Orcelyn -> Diana -> Neoka -> Xeona) and just started getting a couple of kills (no kids, yet). Once I get 4 kids then I switch to the next wife so that I can double check the children and make sure their bonuses work, etc. I got Royal Thorns in the game (I rarely see them) and so I'm going to have fun with them and Diana gives bonuses to all Thorns (as well as other units including Dragonflies, Sprites / Fairies, Dryads, Unicorns, and Ents) and goes well with Neoka since Sprites, Lake Fairies, Dryads, and Ents get bonuses from her, too!

Okay, back to playing...

/C\/C\