TBF Avenger and other planes

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

The only theaters that REALLY interest me are the Commonwealth night bomber offensive, and the North-Atlantic U-boat defense.

Two different wars.

Of the two, the "easier" one to get into the game is the Battle of the Atlantic.

Depth charges as a load-out (actually, just delayed action bombs since IL2 doesn't handle water depth or submarine behavior properly).

One ASW radar for the Liberator. (Perhaps British instruments, guns, radars, etc. for the Liberator VLR variant.)

Big map of the North Atlantic. Steely gray water with a bit of Newfoundland, Iceland, Northern Ireland and/or Norway in the corner(s). Perhaps massively scaled down so that ops that normally took 18 hours to fly could be done in 1-2 hours.

Maybe a Leigh Light.


Bomber Command Night Ops would almost require an entire new sim, since smoke and fire effects would need to be massively reworked, and dozens of new flyable planes and navigation and targeting aids would need be developed, plus new maps to fly over.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

The TBF? I fume to think about having it off-limits. NG was always such a stand-up company--clearly most concerned about giving fighting men something they could REALLY use and repair, giving their workers a real reason to be proud, and giving engineers a reason to do "right" things.

Yep. They got evil and corrupt starting in the 90s after the merger. Massive fines for various ethics and environmental violations. Grumman might have been a stand-up company, but Northrop wasn't so nice and Northrop bought Grumman, not the other way round.

My hope is that a talented modder will make high-quality flyable TBF cockpit and crew stations, and then go on to complete the entire run of Grumman fighters, starting with the F3F. Then, they'll finish off by making a really top-of-the-line fully flyable P-61 and the Ryan FR Fireball. This is a wish-list thread!

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Buster_Dee

I think we were still in that phase of "almost" listening to British war experience, while they were just getting used to letting us find out some things for ourselves.

I'd say that the major nation that get shortest shrift in IL2 is the UK.

There are many major British plane, tank and vehicle types that aren't represented, and the major theaters where the British fought (mostly) don't have maps. Many of the British planes chosen to be in IL2 were only because they were used on the Eastern Front. If it wasn't for Finland, we'd have no early war British planes at all!

Admittedly, IL2 was designed from a Russian point of view and was a healthy correction to all the Battle of Britain and "U.S.-conquers the world" sims, but I'd love to see a sim focused on the Mediterranean Theater from 1941-1943.

Plenty of air forces (Yugoslavia, Vichy France, Rhodesia, South Africa, Greece, Egypt and Canada in addition to the nations already in the game), many obscure battles, many obscure aircraft and vehicles to go along with the famous hardware, gorgeous terrain, often evenly matched forces - almost to the end.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'd say that the major nation that get shortest shrift in IL2 is the UK.

There are many major British plane, tank and vehicle types that aren't represented, and the major theaters where the British fought (mostly) don't have maps. Many of the British planes chosen to be in IL2 were only because they were used on the Eastern Front. If it wasn't for Finland, we'd have no early war British planes at all!

Admittedly, IL2 was designed from a Russian point of view and was a healthy correction to all the Battle of Britain and "U.S.-conquers the world" sims, but I'd love to see a sim focused on the Mediterranean Theater from 1941-1943.

Plenty of air forces (Yugoslavia, Vichy France, Rhodesia, South Africa, Greece, Egypt and Canada in addition to the nations already in the game), many obscure battles, many obscure aircraft and vehicles to go along with the famous hardware, gorgeous terrain, often evenly matched forces - almost to the end.

The list of British missing types is impressive. Most medium and all heavy bombers, all seaplanes, all transports. We have just one Mosquito and one Beaufighter models, but the Beau is the Australian variant. If I’m not mistaken, there is Tempest but no Typhoon, no ground attack Hurricanes (IId, IIe and IV), no Griffon Spitfires.
By comparison, Italian types are well represented, with a good choice of fighters and two out of three main bomber types. Regia Aeronautica just miss a transport (like the S82 Marsupiale, used also by Luftwaffe) and a seaplane (like the CANT Z506).

Looking at the British missing list I feel mixed emotions. The dreamer drools thinking at all those new types. The realist thinks that such dream is too good to be true and would be better to concentrate energies on more reachable goals.

[gaunt1]

B-25C/D (same) was also used by the british (Mitchell Mk.II), and in significant numbers. I think this is the most reachable goal for a flyable british bomber.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

B-25C/D (same) was also used by the British (Mitchell Mk.II), and in significant numbers. I think this is the most reachable goal for a flyable british bomber.

True. Although the A-20C was also used in limited numbers by the UK.

Another conversion of an existing plane in the game would be to convert the A-20C to the Havoc III, or even the DB-7/Boston I. As an AI plane, you wouldn't even need different crew stations - just different ordinance and guns.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Furio

If I’m not mistaken, there is Tempest but no Typhoon, no ground attack Hurricanes (IId, IIe and IV), no Griffon Spitfires.

Correct on almost all counts, although I think that the Mk.IId Hurricane is in the game.

Originally Posted by Furio

By comparison, Italian types are well represented, with a good choice of fighters and two out of three main bomber types. Regia Aeronautica just miss a transport (like the S82 Marsupiale, used also by Luftwaffe) and a seaplane (like the CANT Z506).

Yes, but there are some frustrating choices for the flyable Italian planes.

A flyable Re.2000/MAGAV Heja would make for a more interesting career as a Hungarian fighter pilot (you start off with the Cr.42 - which sucks on the Eastern Front after 1941, then later transition to the Bf-109G).

A flyable Fiat G.55 would just be fun. We don't exactly need it since we have a flyable MC.205 and the G.55 wasn't built in any great numbers, but if you're a fighter geek, then not having it flyable is like being a kid with his nose pressed up against the candy store window. Same for the Re.2000 and Re.2002.

Originally Posted by Furio

Looking at the British missing list I feel mixed emotions. The dreamer drools thinking at all those new types. The realist thinks that such dream is too good to be true and would be better to concentrate energies on more reachable goals.

Yep. The good news is that modeling a single-engined AI plane isn't THAT hard, if you've got the basic artist skills. Maybe some modder will hear our prayers.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A flyable Re.2000/MAGAV Heja would make for a more interesting career as a Hungarian fighter pilot (you start off with the Cr.42 - which sucks on the Eastern Front after 1941, then later transition to the Bf-109G).

If I’m not mistaken, the Italian built Re2000 was the Hèja I, and could already be employed in a Hungarian pilot career. For the Hèja II, a different engine and cowling is almost all is needed, performances being similar.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A flyable Fiat G.55 would just be fun. We don't exactly need it since we have a flyable MC.205 and the G.55 wasn't built in any great numbers, but if you're a fighter geek, then not having it flyable is like being a kid with his nose pressed up against the candy store window. Same for the Re.2000 and Re.2002.

That’s a typo for the 2001, I suppose… In that case, the Re2001 was built in small numbers (Wiki says 237) and had rather unspectacular performances. The Re2002 was a ground attack variant, reverting to radial engine. It was a sort of “Mini-Sky raider” with low performances and light armament. It was noteworthy mainly for being in operational service on both sides at the same time, being flown by both Luftwaffe and Italian Co-Belligerent Air Force.

The one really outstanding Reggiane was the 2005, but only 32 were built, briefly used against allied bombers. Two B24 shot down is all what they obtained, but they revealed very good high altitude performances. An aesthetically pleasing machine, the Sagittario had – at last – a powerful armament, with two 12,7 mm SAFAT and three 20 mm MG151.

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

The good news is that modeling a single-engined AI plane isn't THAT hard.

That's great news. I'll expect to see all the single engine models that you are working on in the next patch.

[sniperton]

Strange as it is, but the game engine and the general game design are more fitted to recreate either the 'forgotten battles' of WWII or the Jet Era than the large-scale air operations characteristic of the main battle fronts from the mid war. Even the Battle of Britain falls into this latter category.

Il-2 excels where air war was conducted with limited forces and in a skirmishing manner -- in Finland, or in the Med, or even in the early Pacific. BoB is still okay so far as we stick to Dowding's strategy of sending off only a handful of fighters against numerous invaders. But the escalating air war as conducted under Sholto Douglas, or Goering, or Harris, or Spaatz, was basically and fundamentally different.

As to new maps and (mostly British) planes, I would hark back to the forgotten battles concept and concentrate on the Northern convoy route to Murmansk, on the Med, on China, and on Australasia. And, of course, several old cockpits deserve a repaint at least.