Birds of Prey GC 2008 trailer

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Early Spitfire and Hurricanes had carburetor fed engines which when pushed forward into negative G maneuvers would cause the fuel to rush away from the feed and the engine would indeed stall. This could happen upsidedown, yes, but also while pushing forward on the stick to chase a 109. This was later solved...particularly in the Mark V series of Spitfires and later. In IL-2 1946 and in all previous versions a negative G engine stall occurs on the Hurricane I as it should.

Yeah, I know a history.
But in IL-2 it happens on the Hurricane I, but not on a Spitfire, which was my point.
In our game we have identification of engine stalls, but engine won't break, only engine power lowers. (sometimes engines've stopped running in a real).

Honestly I wouldn't mind a proper engine stall in the game BoP as well. Simulation mode on. Certainly I'm looking forward to that in Storm of War. Not so much silly in my mind

I was talking about our console players - they were not asking for that .
They'll be confused in such a case.

In any case...as I say...wish you the best of luck in the development of this game. A big challenge and a work of art absolutely.

Thanks a lot.

[Biggs]

artistic license is one thing, but when you clearly have a model (variant) of a 109E that actually shows the Mgs in the cowling, yet you code the plane to fire a cannon through the nose cone that isnt even there, is something completely different.

im sorry to say but its just plain incorrect.

yes 3 cannoned 109s existed, but they were not the 109E.

im really not trying to rain on your game.. i think its beautiful and ill probably buy it.... im just saying you should look more carfully at what your programmers are doing to particular aircraft models.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Biggs

artistic license is one thing, but when you clearly have a model (variant) of a 109E that actually shows the Mgs in the cowling, yet you code the plane to fire a cannon through the nose cone that isnt even there, is something completely different.

im sorry to say but its just plain incorrect.

yes 3 cannoned 109s existed, but they were not the 109E.

im really not trying to rain on your game.. i think its beautiful and ill probably buy it.... im just saying you should look more carfully at what your programmers are doing to particular aircraft models.

Actually it was possible to mount a MG-FF firing through the nose cone...but apparently there were problems with this installation. Not sure what those problems were. I guess the intention always was to do it that way but they couldn't quite get it sorted out properly until the Bf109F models.

Still...its the absolute least common variation and another type that ultimately was a failure just like the Spit Ib and Hurricane I with experimental cannon armament.

Most common 109E armament was the E-4 model with two MG17 machine guns in the nose and two MG-FF/M 20mm cannons on the wings. The only other variation should be the E-1 model with MG17s in the nose and on the wings (but these were apparently all converted to E-3 or E-4 standard).

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

Yeah, I know a history.
But in IL-2 it happens on the Hurricane I, but not on a Spitfire, which was my point.

Actually a correction. There is no Spitfire Mark I in IL-2 so therefore no reason to model the problem. The earliest Spitfire in IL-2 is the Mark V which did not suffer any adverse negative G problems that other planes didn't also suffer (no WWII warbird is capable of prolonged negative G).

If there was a Spit Mark I then it should be modeled.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by Biggs

artistic license is one thing, but when you clearly have a model (variant) of a 109E that actually shows the Mgs in the cowling, yet you code the plane to fire a cannon through the nose cone that isnt even there, is something completely different.

im sorry to say but its just plain incorrect.

yes 3 cannoned 109s existed, but they were not the 109E.

There was Bf-109E-3 with 2MG17 in the nose, two wing cannons and one MG FF/M. According to some sources, it was flying prototype according to others - series plane.

If that was a point.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Actually it was possible to mount a MG-FF firing through the nose cone...but apparently there were problems with this installation. Not sure what those problems were. I guess the intention always was to do it that way but they couldn't quite get it sorted out properly until the Bf109F models.

Problem is it was rarely used by pilots, because of vibration.

Still...its the absolute least common variation and another type that ultimately was a failure just like the Spit Ib and Hurricane I with experimental cannon armament.

You are wrong. It is not a failure. We are not showing you historical documentary movie.
It is game. It simulates planes, which were actually exists - so it is historical correct.
We are not showing you WW2 statistics - and we do not guarantee that all planes will appear on screen same percent of time as they stastically appeared in the skies those days. It is nonsense.


And I hope this is last time I am repeating that.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Actually a correction. There is no Spitfire Mark I in IL-2 so therefore no reason to model the problem. The earliest Spitfire in IL-2 is the Mark V which did not suffer any adverse negative G problems that other planes didn't also suffer (no WWII warbird is capable of prolonged negative G).

If there was a Spit Mark I then it should be modeled.

Probably you right
I am starting to forget what it was in IL-2 (and it's add-ons).
Another example. Afair, Bf109 (at least some of them) were able to get out of spin only each second turn - it wasn't simulated.

[Biggs]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

There was Bf-109E-3 with 2MG17 in the nose, two wing cannons and one MG FF/M. According to some sources, it was flying prototype according to others - series plane.

If that was a point.

thats good and all but thats not the plane that is in your game right now..

im not protesting the fact that they didnt exist. im saying, if the 3d model of the 109E in BOP has mgs in the cowling then i suspect that bullets should be coming out of them and not out the nose...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Anton Yudintsev

Problem is it was rarely used by pilots, because of vibration.



You are wrong. It is not a failure. We are not showing you historical documentary movie.
It is game. It simulates planes, which were actually exists - so it is historical correct.
We are not showing you WW2 statistics - and we do not guarantee that all planes will appear on screen same percent of time as they stastically appeared in the skies those days. It is nonsense.


And I hope this is last time I am repeating that.

I understand perfectly what you are saying. I just disagree.

And in all honesty the Spitfire Ib and Hurricane experimental with cannons WERE indeed failures so much so that the pilots lobbied to have their old planes (with 8x.303 machine guns) returned to them. Thats pretty damning for those early cannon armed RAF fighters.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by Biggs

thats good and all but thats not the plane that is in your game right now..

im not protesting the fact that they didnt exist. im saying, if the 3d model of the 109E in BOP has mgs in the cowling then i suspect that bullets should be coming out of them and not out the nose...

Oh, I get it now.
1. There was nose cannon there.
2. Trailer was captured from March (or April) version. Now is August. Game will be released in 09.
Some of models were just placeholders of others, that time.
Because I am mostly playing latest build, I haven't got what you were talking. I even talked to other guys from our team to clarify if I am wrong
Hope, it's clear now.