Spit IIa is now so much more inferior to the 109

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

I think it should be this simple, In a short climb a spit should gain on a 109, but in a sustained climb the 109 should pull away, especially in a left handed spiral climb. In a 109 Never dog fight a spit you will always be tempted to use flap reduce throttle thinking that you might get a lead on him, you wont. Pick your combat entry point and exit point carefully, know when to enter the fight and keep energy at all times.

Maby at 6 1/2 lbs yes but still not sure with CSP but really doubt with +12 lbs emergency power for SPit. 1300 HP make really difference here.

[theOden]

Originally Posted by Insuber

I warmly encourage red pilots to fly blue and blue fly red

Can we have this as a message popup when opening this forum?

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Like someone else mentioned a good Spit Pilot against a average 109 pilot A spit can win (if he suckers the 109 into a turn fight).

The bolded part is not entirely true.

A good Spit pilot will enter the fight with energy advantage and will energy fight.

If he fail to kill the enemy until the energy states are equal (that's not easy: the 109 climbs better BUT he has to lose energy turning hard to avoid the Spit's high speed attacks) then he can turn too.. only in that case the quality of the 109's pilot matter.

TnB will always make you bleed energy and you will have to lose altitude to keep speed.

So the Spit's pilot should always try to kill the enemy in BnZ, ambushing it, like Johnnie Johnson did when he received his SpitIX.

You may turn fight but it's not mandatory. I like to say it the last thing to do.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Maby at 6 1/2 lbs yes but still not sure with CSP but really doubt with +12 lbs emergency power for SPit. 1300 HP make really difference here.

Although the 100 Octane was really only effective up to about 10,500ft, so in a short zoom climb against a 109 below these altitudes a Spitfire using +12 lbs could probably catch a 109; the CSP prop made a bigger difference above that altitude. From what I can find the 109 also had a steeper climb angle which made it hard for a pursuing Spitfire to line up its sights.

[Icebear]

Originally Posted by theOden

Can we have this as a message popup when opening this forum?

But by the way; did anbody complain when the "Spitfire Mk.II speed performance was too good at all altitudes, sometimes 60 mph better than the real thing." ? Not that I really missed this constant howling about plane perfomances, but feels a bit like being back to normal....

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by ReconNZ

Why play red at all?

I was just in a dog fight online in a IIa getting boomed and zoomed by a 109 - he had 30 - 40% more lift and speed on me on every sweep past and he just flew away from me everytime.

I do not understand what the further questions? It is surprising that the plane will win the combat, who has advantage at start? Do you think it would be good if the plane with initial disadvantage can shoot down the other aircraft without any problems? What would you need? Rocket? Rechargable shield? Laser gun?

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi Chaps,

I have found the Spit IIa to be competitive with the 109. I have achieved a couple of kills and survived a couple more lengthy encounters. I have been able to make a sustained turn inside the 109 but only just. It surprised me how willingly the 109s have entered a turn fight but I'm no expert and it could have been the best tactic under the specific circumstances. I don't know whether these were experienced players.

I hesitate to mention this as I really enjoy the IIa but it seems a bit of a gift that I can fly with boost on all the time at 100% throttle. It seems to be about 8lbs boost. As long as revs are kept a little lower than maximum using prop-pitch and rads are open it will not overheat. I can achieve and maintain 280 mph low and sustain a turn at around 200mph for as long as my patience lasts.

Why have the realism fans not jumped up and down at this? Or am I completely wrong and I should be able to fly with the throttle through the gate all the time?

I really have no agenda to support here, it's merely subjective observation. I hope there is some balance possible, and there seems some currently between the 109E4 and SpitIIa.

Cheers,

Septic.

[notafinger!]

I would like to see more balance in the FM's as well with each of 3 main single engines having defined strengths & weaknesses. It's not possible to get 100% realism in the FM's but something that feels believable (i.e. fits the historical narrative of BoB) and is balanced is possible.

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Can you give us the relative energy states at the start of the fight?
What was your altitude? What was the 109's one?
The speed of both?

Hi Manu

Yeah the reason i raised the original post in the first place was because this 109 actually started just lower than me. i came onto him and we had an initial first pass, at which point he began to climb, he climbed away from me, then turned and engaged. After 2 or 3 repeats of this, he was much higher than me,.

Now I'm a pretty experienced spit pilot, i did my best to stay with him, but the 109 just climbs so much better than the spit - it's ridiculous.

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Krupi, quit pretending that you aren't dripping with BIAS. Its pretty pathetic. Second, if you are in a 109 and you allow your self to get in a turn fight with a Spit, you DESERVE to get shot down.

I will post the video of a friend and I flying together comparing the 109 and Spit climb rates, needless to say the 109 walks away from the SPIT IIa like its standing still in a climb.


I really have to laugh when the RAF aircraft have been gutted and yet you cry for more nerfing, but yet also cry for more performance out your "unbiased" 109. Yet you offer no numbers, facts, or concrete evidence of the fact that SPIT's are superior.


Like someone else mentioned a good Spit Pilot against a average 109 pilot A spit can win (if he suckers the 109 into a turn fight).

But a good 109 and a good Spit, The Spit fire is doomed, speed is life. The Spit cant run away, or disengage a Z & B. If a 109 messes up he just runs for home. NO SPIT can catch a 109 in a FLAT out drag race.

+1 Hooves - exactly my original point. The fm is fundamentally biased towards the 109, and imo it's killing the game.