Real World BoB Hurricane Pilot's views on SOW

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

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So bad Vulching this "gear extended He111".


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yeah hopefully the distinctive way the gear dropped when the hydraulics were damaged on the he111 will be modeled in the game.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by winny

I could be wrong.. but I think the enemy tracer are the ones coming towards you (in most cases)

(Note: In all cases treat any tracer coming your way as something you should probably avoid) I underlined the important bits.

It's kinda like showing an F1 game to an F1 Driver I suppose.. They're probably thinking... pah, nothing like it!

I actually liked the Veterans comment because it showed his mind still worked on a tactical level above anything else. It shows the first thing he thought of when he saw it was about the actual practicallity of it all, not the look, but the what do you do when you are in that situation. He was never gonna say "that's the best graphics I've ever seen", was he? Anyway respect to him for showing that old men still think like young men.

Originally Posted by Avimimus

Good observation.

Come to think of it, I've seen this in a few other accounts of Veterans being shown sims. For us simmers it is a game - a game we can push towards being an art. But for them it was (and remains) anything but a game.

Practicality deserves a great deal of respect, especially for the causes behind it.

Actually, some years ago i came across a post on a forum (i think it was on the ubizoo) detailing how an IL2 player had his grandfather fly a sortie and what came out of it. I think it was in a thread about joystick sensitivity and the story where an RAF veteran frequented a virtual squad forum, got acquainted with the IL2 players, tried the simulator and gave then what he considered the settings that resulted in the most realistic control response.

Apparently another user's grandfather used to fly 109s for the Luftwaffe, so he convinced him to try out the settings proposed by the RAF guy and comment on them.
He set him up with the same sub-type he was flying back then, explained the controls to him and let him loose on the AI which consisted of some P-38s, expecting to hear how close the handling is to the real thing.

However, instead of commenting on anything like that the old guy just took to flying some of the most leisurely and calculated maneuvers his grandson had seen and it was still a natural to him after all these years (that's actually quite an indication that the FM and stick sensitivity settings were pretty much spot on however).

Happy to see his grandfather being comfortable with it and eager to see him score a kill, the guy is nevertheless a bit puzzled at how lazily his grandfather is flying while the AI opponents are throwing their P-38s all over the place, so he asks "why don't you close in and take a shot? you can out-maneuver them anyway". Well, the old guy replies "with the amount of turning he's doing, he'll be so tired in a minute or two that he won't be able to pull more than a couple of Gs, that's when i'll close in"

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Well, the old guy replies "with the amount of turning he's doing, he'll be so tired in a minute or two that he won't be able to pull more than a couple of Gs, that's when i'll close in"

I think we need an additional feature for FR mode.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by winny

I could be wrong.. but I think the enemy tracer are the ones coming towards you (in most cases)

(Note: In all cases treat any tracer coming your way as something you should probably avoid) I underlined the important bits.

It's kinda like showing an F1 game to an F1 Driver I suppose.. They're probably thinking... pah, nothing like it!

I actually liked the Veterans comment because it showed his mind still worked on a tactical level above anything else. It shows the first thing he thought of when he saw it was about the actual practicallity of it all, not the look, but the what do you do when you are in that situation. He was never gonna say "that's the best graphics I've ever seen", was he? Anyway respect to him for showing that old men still think like young men.

yes, one would hope the tracer coming your way was from the enemy! But my point is that in Il-2, I have flown campaigns many times where the fight develops into a wide-spread dogfight. Sometimes I shoot one enemy plane down, realise I still have a fair amount of ammo and fuel left; can see another fight going on, so I will look at the tracer to see if it's enemy or friendly. It can be really helpful sometimes.

[Stranzki]

Originally Posted by swiss

I think we need an additional feature for FR mode.

Would be nice to have somekind of stamina. But I think Oleg already stated that they had no satisfying way of modelling it.

We surely miss a new dimension of trolling! Just imagine the endless discussions about the pilot's endurance and the influence of food on it "German sauerkraut was uber! Ze Germans need more endurance. OLEG plz fix it!!"

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by stranzki

would be nice to have somekind of stamina. But i think oleg already stated that they had no satisfying way of modelling it.

We surely miss a new dimension of trolling! Just imagine the endless discussions about the pilot's endurance and the influence of food on it "german sauerkraut was uber! Ze germans need more endurance. Oleg plz fix it!!"

lol

[winny]

Originally Posted by Stranzki

Would be nice to have somekind of stamina. But I think Oleg already stated that they had no satisfying way of modelling it.

We surely miss a new dimension of trolling! Just imagine the endless discussions about the pilot's endurance and the influence of food on it "German sauerkraut was uber! Ze Germans need more endurance. OLEG plz fix it!!"

If SoW is being made as 3rd party friendly as they say it is then maybe someone would be able to also create some kind of pilot/crew management... including killable crew. I'm just thinking out loud feel free to tear this idea a new one..

For bombers..
You could have a heart rate/stamina/panic system.
You have a certain ammount of points to allocate to your crew before departure so you could have a balanced crew or have some crew stronger in areas than others... I think it would be quite good going off on a bombing mission knowing the guy in the rear turret is super cool but that if you start throwing your ship around then the waist gunner's gonna freak out! If you survive the mission you get points to account for experience.
You could see how many of your original crew survived the tour and as they get killed you get given a random new crew member good or bad.

This is probably way more complex than I've made it out to be... sorry, just a thought bubble.

[philip.ed]

Isn't this already in SoW on some level?

[ComeOneComeAll]

I realise this is a very old thread, but I was googling my father (as a bored man does sometimes) and came across this thread....my father being John Greenwood whose comments are quoted at the beginning of this thread.

I, in fact, remember getting a Battle of Britain PC game many years ago together with a joystick attachment and getting him to have a go at it. After showing him the controls and putting into a squadron of Heinkel he immediately showed the skills that kept him alive at that time had not disappeared. The way he locked on and then used his controls to "slide"with his prey was quite amazing.

Anyway, I will likely show him this thread and he will get a good laugh out of it no doubt.

He is now 91 and soon all of his kind will be "unavailable". I suggest if programmers or testers want information they should just ask.....he remembers his version of those days of lost youth very well (although he never remembers any of the bets he has lost to me

When I show this thread to him I will ask him to explain why he believed you would be dead flying straight and level for a period coming up the rear of the enemy.

[TedStryker]

Well, please pass on my gratitude to your father for his service and sacrifice. I have been fortunate enough over the years to be able to meet a few veterans and have been both amazed and humbled by these gentlemen and their stories.

My circle of friends are all in their late 20's - mid 30's, and apart from the serving soldiers, aren't interested in military history. They are all, however, very conscious of the sacrifices made that enable our generation to live and bring up families in a free United Kingdom.
While i can only speak for myself, i am pretty sure i speak for them as well when i say that thankyou is far too small a word.


Ted