Game Hurricane is 534 lbs overweight

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Hood

Messerschmitt - Aircraft & Legend - Nowarra

E1 - 2010kg empty, 2505kg All-up weight

E3 - 2060kg empty, 2610 All-up weight


Nothing to do with the Hurri weight though.

Hood

Nowarra's information is considered to be quite inaccurate and dated.

We should try to rely on original German or British documents or secondarily, original documents on captured aircraft.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by JtD

And I think because these bullet proof windshields were around, they found it necessary to mention that this was not installed on this aircraft. They also state that it is only the fuel tank armour that is different to L1547, which they tested earlier, and L1547 definitely had no armoured windscreen, as can be seen in the picture on the site. Also, the "early production" type windscreen as such was not armoured, and flush. To my knowledge, the Hurricane was never equipped with flush armoured windscreens, but then I might just not have seen it, yet.

If the 434 lbs additional weight added has nothing to do with the actual weights of bullet proof glass and armour plate over the fuel tanks and behind the pilot, then what is the actual weight we should be looking at for a Rotol equipped Hurricane IA? You mentioned 6793 lbs as an upper end for a Hurricane I, but for a BoB aircraft, any info?

[klem]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

And where did a weight of 12.1 kg for the light alloy plating come from?

That the 8mm thick 109E "armour" weighed only 46 kg indicates that it was not armour plate, which would have weighed considerably more, but probably a toughened alloy of some kind, or a sandwich of armour and alloy. Then we have the usual assertion of how bad British methods were cf the uber German...

Hmmmm well at the risk of 'switching sides':

8 mm x 0.75m x 1m Carbon Steel weighs 46KG
http://www.ralingroup.co.uk/weights.html
Does that help?

If steel plate behind the Hurricane pilot was said to be 1/4 inch thick. At 2.5 ft x 3 ft thats 75.6lbs and it was said to weigh 73lbs.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Salute

Please limit the discussion to the Overweight/Underweight issues raised.

JG52_Uther has kindly unlocked the thread at my request after locking it previously.

Please feel free to contribute information on the accurate weights of these aircraft.

In particular, anyone with information on 109E4 weights.

E-4 = same as E-3 plus armor weight.

Merric writes 40 kg for the amored bulkhead (now that I have checked the source )

The armored headrest weighted 13 kg which we do not have in the game, and if fact, its somewhat uncommon to be seen on BoB era 109E.

In fact I seriously doubt that any of the 109E variants has any kind of armor modelled in CLOD. Because if we would have, rear fuselage shots at the 109E from direct astern should be completely ineffective against the pilot and fuel tank..

[ramstein]

I have no clue what the sheild behind the pilot seat weighs in a hurricane,, but a real P-40 pilot (who is a Flying Tiger) told me the sheild behind the seat weighed 60 lbs. They used to take them out to save 60 lbs, which increased aircraft performance. Every pound saved is precious. As it also had alot to do with balance and placement.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

If the 434 lbs additional weight added has nothing to do with the actual weights of bullet proof glass and armour plate over the fuel tanks and behind the pilot, then what is the actual weight we should be looking at for a Rotol equipped Hurricane IA? You mentioned 6793 lbs as an upper end for a Hurricane I, but for a BoB aircraft, any info?

I don't know what the 6750 lb are meant to represent, but it is not completely out of the way as later figures show.

I think the L 2026 is representative for BoB condition without bullet proof windscreen and rear armour plate, i.e. an early BoB version with constant speed prop, and when it's fully fueled up, you're at 6445 lb. Addition of armour and other minor equipment might have added maybe ~150 lb over the course of the year. So I perceive 6445 lb as the lower limit and 6600lb as the upper limit for that period, which puts 3311 kg from in game well out of the reasonable range, no matter which service condition it is meant to represent.

Thanks klem for posting figures on the Hurricane armour plate. Where did you find this info?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

For the second time, please keep the posts to the issue at hand, ie. the weights of the aircraft.

[Kwiatek]

Here is Hurricane MK1 data. Max take of weight is 6793 lbs (3081 kg). So everything above these in CLOD is just wrong.




I checked difference between SPit MK1 (without pilot armour plate) and MK II (with pilot armour plate):

P.7280 ( MK II) - 6172 lb. (2800 kg)
N.3171 ( MK I) - 6050 lb. (2744kg)

..This aeroplane ( MK II) was fitted with a bullet-proof windscreen, armour plating over the petrol tank and externally, apart from the radiator, was similar to the Rotol Spitfire I, N.3171, previously tested at this establishment. The radiator of P.7280 is of the Morris type and tests were called for to determine the suitability of this radiator under tropical conditions. Internally, one difference between this aeroplane and N.3171 has been the fitting of armour plating behind the pilot in the Spitfire II. Generally, any change in performance or handling can be attributed to the change in engine and radiator alone. "

So Spitfire MK1 with aditional pilot armour should have take off weight ab. 6123 lbs ( + 73 lbs armour) - 2777kg

[TomcatViP]

You guys are incorrigible.

Hurri had a complete wing re-skin from fabric to aluminium. After the expeditionary corps experience, rear armor plating was fitted to many hurri/ Structurally it was made also stronger. Also, most of the props were de-havilland wich was more effective but heavier.

Stop trowing apples when CoD is made out of fine grapes.

[Kwiatek]

If you could read correctly data which i posted for Hurricane MK I is from 6.8.1941 and maximum take off weight is listed as 6793 lbs / 3081 kg not 3300 kg like in CLOD.