Damage model is rubbish!

[sod16]

Originally Posted by Antinko1

Right. The fact of the matter is that the OP's point is somewhat redundant. The context in which we're playing is console gaming - nothing has ever come close to what is being promised with IL-2 Birds of Prey and I doubt it will until a sequel is made.

To expect full simulation, I think, is unrealistic at this point in time. Console gamers play with a different mind set to PC gamers. I'm not syaing that they're not 'as good' but the market certain desires greater accessibility, and this is what BoP offers.

When I played the demo I was extremely impressed. To tell the truth, I hadn't even known the game was being made until I saw the d/l available on XBOX Live and I experienced what only could be described as a 'nerdgasm'.

This game offers the (almost?) perfect balance between flight simulator and arcade game and the plane controls translate beautifully onto the 360 gamepad. I'll probably invest in an AV8ER flight stick at some point in time but I had no trouble using the game pad with the mandatory control layout. I think that in itself is a great achievement for an air combat game on a console.

The only game which I think has a superior control layout (and people will probably throw stones at me here) is Over G fighters - I really liked the rudder as the R and L triggers.

The graphics, physics and damage in IL-2 BoP will keep me entertained for hours and if the opportunity arises, I'll certainly be forming/joining an XBOX live squadron for this game.

It's beautiful.

You know, I'd Love to Dogfight everyone in this post. (Just for laughs of course)

[sod16]

Originally Posted by thundermuffin

Right, because thats on topic...

Just out of curiosity here, did you read the IGN Preview of the game? In there, they state, "As Anatoly Subbotin, 1C's PR manager, explained to us, almost all the air combat games that appear on consoles are arcade games with a few flight simulation elements added to them. Birds of Prey will differ because it is a flight simulator with a few arcade elements added to it. At the same time, the game will feature variable realism settings, ranging from a very forgiving arcade flight mode (it's impossible to stall out or get in a spin) to a hardcore realism mode that is comparable to the PC game. "

You are forgetting that this isn't the PC game. They are INTENTIONALLY dumbing it down. Have you seen how the previous games looked on PC and how it now looks? How much money do you think went in to developing what we all know will be a great game? This game is developed to sell a lot as opposed to a PC game that can turn profit on reasonable sales. Regardless of just damage models, complaints about a lack of unfathomable depth is just silly. That won't sell. How much do you think Forza sold. Not as much as Burnout Paradise. The comparison there is a little unfair, but you see where I'm going.

The Kotaku write up is similarly disappointing to the hard core. " hadn't played the PC original. And I'm not a WWII flight-sim guy. But I was worried for those hardcore IL-Sturmovik fans when I was invited to try a multiplayer session of of the 1C-developed, 505 Games-published upcoming console edition of the series. The 505 rep doing the demo started out by saying the game I was about to play would be like Call of Duty in the air."

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

[BadKarmaSutra96]

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

[sod16]

Originally Posted by BadKarmaSutra96

LoL "nerdgasm". I had one of those when I built myself a PC last month just so I could play ARMA 2 on very high graphic settings.

But, for me, IL-2 is just an "eargasm" and "eyegasm".

Are you serious about that? I built one for crysis+ i needed one anyway, lol ARMA 2 is glitchy and buggy has hell

[butterfield]

Originally Posted by Antinko1

Right. The fact of the matter is that the OP's point is somewhat redundant. The context in which we're playing is console gaming - nothing has ever come close to what is being promised with IL-2 Birds of Prey and I doubt it will until a sequel is made.

To expect full simulation, I think, is unrealistic at this point in time. Console gamers play with a different mind set to PC gamers. I'm not syaing that they're not 'as good' but the market certain desires greater accessibility, and this is what BoP offers.

When I played the demo I was extremely impressed. To tell the truth, I hadn't even known the game was being made until I saw the d/l available on XBOX Live and I experienced what only could be described as a 'nerdgasm'.

This game offers the (almost?) perfect balance between flight simulator and arcade game and the plane controls translate beautifully onto the 360 gamepad. I'll probably invest in an AV8ER flight stick at some point in time but I had no trouble using the game pad with the mandatory control layout. I think that in itself is a great achievement for an air combat game on a console.

The only game which I think has a superior control layout (and people will probably throw stones at me here) is Over G fighters - I really liked the rudder as the R and L triggers.

The graphics, physics and damage in IL-2 BoP will keep me entertained for hours and if the opportunity arises, I'll certainly be forming/joining an XBOX live squadron for this game.

It's beautiful.

This is a really good post in defense of IL2 for the console.. but I also understand where sod16 is coming and would like to state this in his defense:

I've played IL2 on the PC for a good 5 years now. When I first heard it was being handed over to a third party for release on the 360/ps3 I was very skeptical. I thought, "How can this even be possible given a controller with buttons I can count on 2 hands? ...and would console users even want to get into the level of depth known as IL2?"

Then the trailers started appearing on the net and I was instantly in love. I thought "WOW.... this is IL2 1946 with a bad@ss graphical overhaul!!!... I watched the trailers over and over and over.....

Demo day arrives and I felt like a 10 year old on Christmas! I went into the demo knowing things like the engine "management" would be non existant. There would be no prop pitch/air fuel mixture/or in flight supercharger adjustments. There would be no manifold pressure or engine damage due too overheating ...and you know what? I was just perfectly fine with that. After all this is a game console not a flight trainer. I knew that the real bread and butter of the IL2 experience boiled down to 3 areas:
the dogfighting, knowing the strengths and weakness of each plane in a combat situation, and lastly .....the awesome damage model Oleg implemented almost 10 years ago.

Sadly area #3 is horribly diluted. Part of what made IL2 such a good experience was the unknown. Entering combat was the enemy flak going to destroy a flap? was a bf-109 cannon shell going to blow off my rudder? Would a round unluckily pierce a fuel tank causing me to crash land over enemy territory. If I ditched was my landing gear going to extend or was it going to be a belly landing? Well heck if I have to belly land I better find some flat ground or it's all over!!! You see this is whats sadly missing from BOP. So much fun was too be had just trying to ditch a plane and surviving.

Now you just get instant "hollywood" explosions when your wingtip rubs the grass.

I know Anton stated that this is a flight sim not a crash simulator.... but why remove the crash aspect and dumb down the damage engine when it was already there too begin with???,,,it doesn't hurt the playability of the game on the console or confuse the masses that play console games...it only completes the awesomeness that is IL2 ,,,and I surely know that the 360/ps3 can handle ALL of this if my old P3 700mhz did 5 years ago.

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Plus If the damage is restored to its original PC state and a replay editor is included we can have BOP videos like this --->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nDZmu4YQ

[thundermuffin]

Originally Posted by sod16

You quoted me on the wrong stuff, READ WHAT I SAID ABOUT PC GAMES AND CONSOLE GAMES, i didnt say it wont SELL or anything, and believe me i know more about economy then you, i know what'l sell more and wont, as i said im criticising SIMPLE things they could have added to make the game more convincing, and yet you go on.

LMAO again forza 2 out sold burnout baradise 4 to 1 so i dont know what you are talking about...... You cannot compared forza 1 to that, they are not of the same era.
Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

Your arrogance is deceiving you. And fine, forget what I said about sales (again would like to see your marketing/economist credentials to make such a claim) and forget what I said about console to PC comparisons. If you really want to attack my comment w/o ACTUALLY addressing the statement itself, fine, be a child.

But know this: The console crowd is more focused and, with limited releases compared to PC, their attention is easily swayed. Concessions must be made to please them. EVERY SINGLE write up of this game I have read has boasted about how this is the perfect blend of game for an arcade console audience while still giving enough gravy for the hardcore. So complaining about G-Fore deformation is falling on deaf ears. If you want those features, play the earlier versions of the game.

And about Burnout: Paradise... where are you getting your numbers... because that claim is both ludicrous and idiotic... For example: Forza 2 in the month of June 2007 debuted at #6 and eventually moved into the 5 spot selling 500,000 copies... Burnout was in 1st for both consoles in January 2008 and is continuing to sell AMAZINGLY given their after release support.

All of this is off topic, I know, but you brought the fight to me with your sheer arrogance.

[Riceball]

Originally Posted by sod16

Do you even understand English

Originally Posted by sod16

I'll give you a few things that i notist

Originally Posted by sod16

and no dont say the xbox is too crap

Originally Posted by sod16

When on tail out side view

C'mon. That's funny.

[Desode]

Sod16, I have been playing the pc ver of Il2 since it came out. I love it and I even dare to say it is a form of religion to me. I will be all over SOW when it hits in 2010.

That being said, I'm never going to stop playing pc flight sims , but I was floored by this game. I mean lets be honest here. Probably 90% of console players who get this game won't last 5 minutes flying on Sim mode.

I expected BOP to be almost all arcade and it is a very,very, FAR cry from all arcade. For me personally I will give my support 100% to this game. Its going to be great playing against console players on this in MP.

Yeah there are a few things that need fixed and tweaked and things that should have been left in and added in and trust me I agree with on somethings. I think alot of people on here also agree with some of your points.
Your writting just comes off as blunt/abrassive and I think thats why you got some harsh post replies. I don't mind it , Hell I know how forums are.

I just really feel that this game is important for the Sim market. If it can make money and bring new people to the sim scene then well I will give it my praise.
I'm very sure that when people get done playing BOP,a lot of sales will be then coming to Il2 1946 ! Hey Hey HEY ! Thats more noobs for us to rape in Hyperlobby !

Anton and his team have been very good at listening to our opinions.
Sod16, just send your polite suggestions to his thread in a good construtive way and let the dev team know. Trust me they know what kind of standards a lot of us expect when a game carries a name like IL2 Sturmovik !

Just please keep in mind that this is their first run at it, and they are bringing something to the console market that has never been seen there before. I'm sure that if this game does well enough, the sequel will be way better and after dealing with Anton and his crew, I know they will listen to us way more on the creation of a sequel.

Welcome to the forums Sod16.

DESODE

[trk29]

Originally Posted by butterfield

Maybe it was "we ran out of time" problem with the publisher.... I don't know but it is sorely missed.

Anton did say that they actually persuaded the publisher to let them put the sim mode in the game. It almost didn't make it in to the game.

[juz1]

Originally Posted by sod16

Wow i may be a nerd but i cant stand console n00bs.

then seeing that there's lots of us here, why bother?

keep working on those people skills....

child..
________
GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD