UP 3.0 vs HSFX 5.0?

[Kwiatek]

Well i got 2 books about BoB fighter planes where 2 different aeronautical engineer (as i remember from 2 different University) were calculated sustained turn rates for Spitfire Mk1 and 109 E and both got quite different results . Hard to say what data they both used but one got that 109 E outturn Spitfire MK1 and second hardly opposite result.

Originally Posted by Aracno

I dont care, if he is another aeronautical engineer I would expect constructive and precise criticism or errors highlighted on SEOW forum, not spamming other's people whining post, especially in a thread hot like this.
Aachen is a nice guy open to critics and ready to explain when YOU are wrong and correct things where HE is wrong, he really does not deserve post like that.

Sry but i dont have a goal to write at SOEW forum casue im not stick with HSFX and SOEW. One of my reason is that i just know comparing real life data which i got that in many cases many HSFX planes had wrong and unhistorical performance - far from even close to realistic. Im stick with UP where i made many flight models for UP planes based on RL data (orignal scans) and flight test not about dubfully calculations. Im not claim that all planes in UP had accurate performance and flight models beacuse there are so many new planes and flight models made by different people with really different quality. There is not possible to control and check all these planes beacuse there are really too many of them. But i could say only about these one which i made - many Western Front planes like new Fw 190s, 109s, SPitfires etc. Surly nothing is perfect and never will be but the goal is to achive the closiest results to real life data as it is possible in these game.

[Aracno]

So you are the FM guy of the UP?
Coming here to attack your collegue of HFSX?
Congratulations.
And about "dubfully calculations", take care next time you fly on an airliner, maybe calculations are done by Aachen ....

[Kwiatek]

Yes im these guy from UP which made some FM's for it.

I dont want to attack anybody here. Maby i was wrong understanded.
Just i want to say that such "calculations" from different reasons dont work for these planes comparing to RL data. These is the same like i said about 2 different aero engineers who got way different results for the same thing.

Regarding our game it could be also that flight model maker cant or dont know how to get wanted resuts. From my experience sometimes is really hard to do some things in il2 engine and soetimes it is needed to make it different way.

Whathever reason in my humble opinion flight models in HSFX in many cases ( in some important planes) really doesn't work like it supposed to be and are way different from real life results. Just all.

[Aracno]

I dont want to go in the telenovela of "your data are wrong", i have read too much posts and i know is an infinite debate.
Maybe you are using different data, so if your FM check your data i'm happy for you, maybe Aachen is happy because his FM check his data too ..... people can decide by himself.
What i know is that Aachen its an aeronautical engineer that work in the aeronautical industry and a second WW ac passionate and a lot of people are loving his work.
I'm sure a lot of people are loving your FM, there is no reason to go in a "my data are better than yours" war, especially in a forum where the second guy involved (Aachen) is not present.

[Kwiatek]

Well there are not " my data" but just official data from these times used by Germans, British or Amercians for their planes. I mostly try and got if it is possible such official data not books, monographs etc. But if some planes in IL2 mods have obviously way too good or way too worse performacne comparing to even offical data from their country flight test there is really something off. But as you said i also dont want to start another telenovela "which data or mod is better" here, it is not point do to it.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

With regards to the RED text..

Not only is UP 3.0 not compatible with HSFX 5.0

UP 3.0 is not compatible with IL-2 4.10.1!

That is to say you can not join a stock IL-2 4.10.1 server (coop or DF) with UP 3.0 enabled.. EVEN IF THE SERVER SAYS IT ALLOWS MODS!

Which leads to my comment on the ORANGE text..

UP 3.0 has already branched off, that is to say you don't have to wait an see what UP 3.0 decides to do when 4.11 comes out, UP 3.0, as noted above, is not compatible with 4.10.1. And they have already stated they have no intentions of being compatible with any future official 1C/TD updates.

Therefore if you want to use mods, say the 6DOF mod and join a IL-2 4.10.1 server your only choice is to use HSFX 5.0, in that UP 3.0 will not be able to join a 4.10.1 server. The only servers you can join with UP 3.0 is UP 3.0 servers.

And you may want to keep this info under your hat.. Especially if you have an account at the UP and or SAS forums!

Because I brought this all up a few weeks ago at the AAS forums, and it upset the leaders of UP and SAS so much that they felt the need to rename my handle and changed my aviator to something very childish, heck the leaders at SAS was so upset that they even IP banned me from their server.

Which really shows you want kind of mind set your dealing with at those two sites.

Where if you post any info about UP or SAS that they perceived to be negative and you stand the chance of them getting so upset at you that they will change your forum handle, avaitor and/or banning you for something you said in 'ANOTHER' forum!
So keep that in mind if you choose to repeat what I pointed out here.

Let me clarify that... I will be using UP strictly to keep up with what the rest of the mod community is doing but I will be flying HSFX online and with the squad.

[II/JG54_Emil]

bash bash bash mor bash bash bash

lol

what a funny idea to create this forum where can jump on each other

muhahaha

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by II/JG54_Emil

bash bash bash mor bash bash bash

lol

what a funny idea to create this forum where can jump on each other
muhahaha

Just who am I bashing? It s what it is man... I like UP or else it wouldn't be on my HD ... but for me.. the singular most important feature of any mod pack that I use is it's compatibility with the latest incarnation of the stock sim. If the folks at UP/SAS choose to not keep up with that then as far as my online flying goes I will stick with HSFX. I don't see where I am bashing anyone with that ... and frankly ... some of the issues that so many have with the different mod packs do not exist in a vacuum. There are reasons why the two camps are the way they are.. as far as Red & Blue ...

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

From my experience sometimes is really hard to do some things in il2 engine and soetimes it is needed to make it different way.

This is very true at least.

[Aracno]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Yes im these guy from UP which made some FM's for it.

I dont want to attack anybody here. Maby i was wrong understanded.
Just i want to say that such "calculations" from different reasons dont work for these planes comparing to RL data. These is the same like i said about 2 different aero engineers who got way different results for the same thing.

Regarding our game it could be also that flight model maker cant or dont know how to get wanted resuts. From my experience sometimes is really hard to do some things in il2 engine and soetimes it is needed to make it different way.

Whathever reason in my humble opinion flight models in HSFX in many cases ( in some important planes) really doesn't work like it supposed to be and are way different from real life results. Just all.

You seem a reasonable guy, so, how you can think an engineer did not looked in to RL data to check his result?
Comparing theorical calculations with practical result is one of the most important thing for an AC builder, this is why there is windtunnel and test pilot.
Do you really think he did calculations and stop?
Without checking in game result?
We ALL know that game engine has limit, Aachen too, so there must be a reason for the difference you have found, otherwise he dont know how to read RL test data and i will be worried next time i need to fly on an airliner.
And why they have added the ac compare to HFSX, for let you see how wrong was the new FM?
I'm an "old" WWII sim player (CFS1) and i'm in the "modding" since CFS3, unfortunately looks like the ultimate RL data does not exist and during the last ten years I have never seen a thread about FM and RL data finished well.
Keep 10 FM expert toghever and you will obtain 10 different FM, no way to see them happy toghever ....
This is why I see your post a bit unfair, you are an expert and we, ordinary people, must have faith in what you say because we have no way to check, then you should make similar claims with who can argue, Aachen in this case, not in a thread that in most cases will be read by those who have never even seen the data for discussion, and for sure not in a thread starting with "pack vs pack" where NO ONE of both modpack was involved.
I can understand a reaction to Ace's post, but he is not Aachen, Charlie or any other HFSX developer.
Dont forget, SEOW user are in most case experienced and competitive players and WWII lovers, be sure they are not a polite users, if they think there is a problem with the FM of the ac they are flying in the tournment they can give you a good headeche ...
And i suspect there must be something right if most of the best organized groups use only HFSX for their groups activity and on line campaign.
Anyway i want to close the question, there are two modpack around, they have different FM and apparently they are both appreciated by a lot of people.
With HFSX you can disable the "new FM" with expert mode, in UP i suppose there are different slot (not sure, maybe i'm wrong), so the end user has the choice from 3 different FM, he will decide wich one check his expectations, and in most cases is better than having only the stock one.