Fatigue ingame..

[Shadow]

Online D/F server: Not a chance. This bunch of yahoos are, for the most part, Airquake fighters that want less not more realism. Check H/L and see how populated the arcade servers are compared to the higher difficulty ones. It's all about the action, stats, and bragging rights. Why muck it up with an attempt to fly realistically.

Online Coops: Good to have as an option as some these pilots tend to play IL2 as a sim and not an arcade shoot 'em up. Still hard to implement realistically as the game resets between missions.

Offline & Online Campaigns: Definitely! Here is where you can improve your ability to sustain higher G's as you gain more stick time. Or become fatigued faster when flying your fourth mission in a row. When the game can track your progress, it's more likely to implement the effects of fatigue in a more realistic way.

[JG27_brook]

Originally Posted by GOZR

The problem i see online many times is a problem of design .. Oleg has to make a better design FM planes and surounding world physics you will see if you can move the FW190 and others ( a pure example ) like an paper weight extra 300..

the P47 will be hoot then

[Brain32]

Oh silly me, it must be my armchair pilot idiocracy and arogance.
I actually thought that modern jet fighter pilots with years of training including G endurance training and modern anti-G suits, flying modern, FBW equipt aircrafts can withstand larger G-loads for greater periods of time, than farmboys from 1940's in leather jackets flying WW2 propeller planes.
I cincerely apologize for my stupidity

[GOZR]

yes it is,
Brain do you understand G + and - forces at list ?

Also take a look again of how the guys were dressing up closely.. and the technics they had.

[Brain32]

Yes I understand G-forces positive and negative, and many things about it, I also talked to a lot of real pilots about it, maybe you are right and they are full of it, but what I've heard from them didn't sound like enduring high G forces was a piece of cake and those were modern jet fighter pilots that can not be compared with WW2 pilots, not by equipment and not by training can those guys even be compared.
Now you take modern jet fighter or aerobatic pilots as an example and think, heck if those can endure 9G's or even more, sheesh what's 5-6 for a Spitfire pilot right?
Do you really think that for example me(although I'm in quite good phisical condition) and Pit or EcoDragon will be able to deal with high G' loads in a same manner?

[GOZR]

Brain no one said that G forces are a piece of cake.... ?..?
Everyone is different to G and fatigue and any other things ..

Actually there are limits but very different in the middle.

[Pit]

presuming things you said are true about your personal flight experience in those aircraft (dont mean to be rude, but we had the odd fake guy show up, like the one whom wanted everybody to call him colonel blabla whatever it was), and i hope you are the real deal, then let us consider that....

1) the experience in the modern aircraft you refer to all relates to fly by wire modern jet aircraft that are designed to be control with the light touch of one hand, and have with sticks that are MUCH easier to control than those on an old ww2 prop plane, AND in those modern jets you barely use the rudder pedals in normal flight or combat (rudder is mostly used during landing and takeoff from what i hear).

most "combat" in those jets you mention is with "over the horizon" weapon systems to, so it is not usually in very close with sustained air combat maneuvres in close, like it was in ww2.

so compared to ww2 and the physical exhaustion of having to move and stir a stick which has a lot of resistance with both arms, while stomping on the rudder pedals for hard maneuvering while the enemy is about 200 meters away from you is very different. that experience is very similar to having to continuesly pump weights at the gym with both arms and legs at the same time, and even with sutained adrenaline the fatigue factor rapidly sets in. this is something you can measure with physiological testing, and is very differnet from mental fatigue induced by mental concentration and stress.

2) sustaining G maneuvres is a little different. some people were better at it then others, and the correct training usually mattered, they also used various tricks w scarfs and contracting muscles to delay the blackout and redout effect. but that phenomena has a different threshold, and is induced by slightly different actions (for ex simply the tightness of a turn etc..).


i think there is no need for either of those problems to be modeled differently for axis/allied, or young or old pilots, or tall or short, or trained or untrained, or fit or unfit. that would complicate matters beyond what oleg can do right now.

what we do need however is a way to represent physical fatigue, because some of the behaviour you see online is totally unrealistic (as previous posters in this same thread have illustrated very clearly)

Well first off, no offense taken... and I could care less if folks believe my background or not... no skin off my nose one way or the other!!
However, I have NO doubt there is the wannabe fake here and there!! But you will ALWAYS run into that... even in the military itself with "BX hero's".

Anyway Zap... you are NOT correct that all of the A/C I flew were "fly by wire".... ONLY the F-16 was... The F-111 and F-4 were mechanical linkage with hydraulic boosted sytems.... otherwise known as "hydromechanical"... you worked hard in these A/C!! You ARE correct in the fact that the rudder is not extensively used ESPECIALLY in the F-16 until airspeed dropped to around 300 knots... in fact the computer on the F-16 "locked out" the use of the rudder above 350 knots. BUT, the optimum "dogfighting" speed for the F-16 is from 350 to about 400 knots!! And though They were all MEANT for BVR fighting... how often does that actually happen... it doesn't... current ROE is that we STILL have to VISUALLY identify a target. So we STILL train for the furball!! You are correct that actual sustained furballs have not happened for a long time... but we STILL train for them... and it is STILL very grueling... EVEN in F-16's!! EVEN in extended and sustained furballs... trust me... the fatigue does not set in until AFTER it has ended, no matter how much you are working in the cockpit... you are literally fighting for you life... the adrenaline DEFINATELY staves off the fatigue until the fight is over!!! The BIGGEST problem is blackouts... greyouts... and redouts... adrenaline does NOTHING for those!!! That is where proper G techniques come into play!!! For example... Because of more experience... I may be able to pull 10 G's sustained for 4-5 minutes.... and YOU may be only able to pul 10 G's for maybe just 3 minutes... this provides me a VERY big advantage... BUT, NOBODY will be able to pull 6+ sustained G's for 20 minutes or more without becoming SERIOUSLY wore out... BUT in reality... high G maneuvers are only going to occur for a couple of minutes at a time before the air speed bleeds off so much you need to do something about it.... and I do not care what type A/C you are in!!

[DKoor]

This G thing and overall maneuverability is more realistically pictured in TARGETWARE sim.
Those who played it knows what I'm talking about.....

It's a crude game when you compare it to the IL-2 but...........roxors big time in this regard.

=no bat outworld moves

[Pit]

Originally Posted by DKoor

This G thing and overall maneuverability is more realistically pictured in TARGETWARE sim.
Those who played it knows what I'm talking about.....

It's a crude game when you compare it to the IL-2 but...........roxors big time in this regard.

=no bat outworld moves

Never heard of that one...

[DKoor]

Originally Posted by Pit

Never heard of that one...

http://www.targetware.net/

Check it out..............first register then dl.
It's not a big dl and if you have a reasonable speed you'll fly before you know it.

Fly vs humans there and you'll see what I mean.