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#41
04-03-2011, 09:36 AM
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If you look at the stockpile amount of 100 octane fuel, it actually goes up between March 1940 and October 1940! That could only mean either Britain wasn't using the fuel and was saving it. Or there was plenty to go around.
Personally I believe there was more than enough to go round and let's face it Britain was fighting for her existence and wouldn't hold anything back. Oh yes and not forgetting the order for squadrons to make the necessary alterations to their Merlins so their Hurricanes and Spitfires can run 100 octane fuel. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ap1590b.jpg Last edited by Moggy; 04-03-2011 at 09:49 AM. |
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#42
04-03-2011, 11:20 AM
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Cross-referencing references to +12lbs boost in combat reports with the dates that the squadron involved were stationed at certain airfields we can see that 100 octane fuel was available for certain at the following airfields from at least the following months:
RAF North Weald (11 Group) in February RAF Drem (13 Group) in February RAF Rochford (11 Group) in March RAF Digby (12 Group) in March RAF Hawkinge (11 Group) in May RAF Hornchurch (11 Group) in May RAF Tangmere (11 Group) in May RAF Duxford (12 Group) in May RAF Gravesend (11 Group) in June RAF Catterick (12 Group) in June RAF Biggin Hill (11 Group) in July RAF Kenley (11 Group) in August RAF Northolt (11 Group) in August RAF Westhampnett (11 Group) in August RAF Middle Wallop (10 Group) in August RAF Leconfield (12 Group) in August RAF Croydon (11 Group) in September RAF Warmwell (10 Group) in September |
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#43
04-03-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Thanks for the above. This is exactly the kind of analytical approach that is useful for the community and mission builders. There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that 100 octane was used on a significant scale by RAF fighters (and to some extent, BC's Blenheim Squadrons, two of them IIRC), however, lacking positive evidence we do not know the exact scale of this. IMHO its a waste of time to go back and forth into 'interpreting' the existing evidence, which is insufficent to make categoric statements. What we know is that it was used, and that +12 Spits/Hurris have a legit place in the sim of course. However I also wholeheartedly agree that given the numerous bugs that riddle the sim due to its too early release are absolute more important than FM issues or the addition of new types.. We need to know what Stations were supplied with 100 octane, and what Squadrons were based at them and when. Its a very large and certainly demanding work, but the results imho worth the effort. Based on the current evidence (feel free to add new sources showing 100 octane at the said airfield during the Battle and I'll update the list) shows that 100 octane aviation spirit was supplied to 8 out of 19 Sector Airfields 9 out of 32 Fighter Airfields (however 7 of the 32 functioning as satellite airfield for rotation etc., with no Sqn permanently based there). The below is a detailed list of Fighter Command Stations during the Battle of Britain. I've marked the ones you listed above which show some kind of evidence of 100 octane fuel being supplied to them (usually Combat reports in the literature) with an underline. Coloring would be better but I am not sure how to this with this forum engine. The following list of stations and associated Squadrons also give a fair idea about the extent of Squadron movements during the Battle, and how it complicates things.. The source is below.  via http://www.raf.mod.uk/Bob1940/stations.html 11 Group Group Headquarters 11 Group Headquarters was based at RAF Uxbridge, the administratve centre. Also within the physical area of 11 Group and close to Uxbridge is RAF Bentley Priory, the Headquarters of Fighter Command during the Battle. Sector Airfields RAF Biggin Hill. RAF Biggin Hill was home to the Biggin Hill Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 32 Squadron from 4 June 1940 No 79 Squadron from 5 June 1940 No 610 Squadron from 2 July 1940 No 79 Squadron from 27 August 1940 No 72 Squadron from 31 August 1940 No 92 Squadron from 8 September 1940 No 141 Squadron from 13 September to 18 September 1940 No 72 Squadron from 14 September 1940 No 74 Squadron from 15 October 1940 RAF Debden. RAF Debden was home to the Debden Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 85 Squadron from 22 May 1940 No 17 Squadron from 19 June 1940 No 257 Squadron from 15 August 1940 No 601 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 111 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 17 Squadron from 2 September 1940 No 25 Squadron from 8 October 1940 RAF Hornchurch. RAF Hornchurch was home to the Hornchurch Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 65 Squadron from 5 June 1940 No 74 Squadron from 25 June 1940 No 54 Squadron from 24 July 1940 No 41 Squadron from 26 July 1940 No 54 Squadron from 8 August 1940 No 266 Squadron from 14 August 1940 No 600 Squadron from 22 August 1940 No 264 Squadron from 22 August 1940 No 603 Squadron from 27 August 1940 No 41 Squadron from 3 September 1940 RAF Kenley. RAF Kenley was home to the Kenley Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 615 Squadron from 20 May 1940 No 616 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 253 Squadron from 29 August 1940 No 66 Squadron from 3 September 1940 No 501 Squadron from 10 September 1940 No 253 Squadron from 16 September 1940 RAF Northolt. RAF Northolt was home to the Northolt Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 609 Squadron from 19 May 1940 No 257 Squadron from 4 July 1940 No 303 Squadron from 22 July 1940 No 43 Squadron from 23 July 1940 to 1 August 1940 No 1 Squadron from 1 August 1940 No 401 Squadron RCAF from Mid-August 1940 No 615 Squadron from 10 October 1940 No 302 Squadron from 11 October 1940 RAF North Weald. RAF North Weald was home to the North Weald Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 151 Squadron from 20 May 1940 No 56 Squadron from 4 June 1940 No 25 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 249 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 257 Squadron from 8 October 1940 RAF Tangmere. RAF Tangmere was home to the Tangmere Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 145 Squadron from 10 May 1940 No 43 Squadron from 31 May 1940 No 601 Squadron from 17 June 1940 No 1 Squadron from 23 June 1940 No 266 Squadron from 9 August 1940 No 17 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 607 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 601 Squadron from 2 September 1940 No 213 Squadron from 7 September 1940 No 145 Squadron from 9 October 1940 Fighter Airfields RAF Croydon. RAF Croydon was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 111 Squadron from 4 June 1940 No 501 Squadron from 21 June 1940 No 401 Squadron RCAF from July 1940 No 85 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 72 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 111 Squadron from 3 September 1940 No 605 Squadron from 7 September 1940 RAF Detling. Detling was one of the 11 Group satellite airfields used by units on a day-to-day basis as required, often flights or squadrons would detach to such an airfield in the morning and return to their main operating and maintenance base in the evening. RAF Eastchurch. RAF Eastchurch was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 266 Squadron from 12 August 1940 RAF Ford. RAF Ford was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 23 Squadron from 12 September 1940 RAF Gosport. Gosport was, along with Lee-on-Solent, one of the Royal Navy's airfields used in the defence of Southampton and Portsmouth. Royal Navy fighters were permanently based there, and occasionally RAF units were detached, using the airfield in the same way as a satellite or relief landing ground. RAF Gravesend. RAF Gravesend was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 610 Squadron from 26 May 1940 No 604 Squadron from 3 July 1940 No 501 Squadron from 25 July 1940 No 66 Squadron from 11 September 1940 RAF Hawkinge. RAF Hawkinge was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 79 Squadron from 2 July 1940 RAF Hendon. RAF Hendon was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 257 Squadron from 17 May 1940 No 504 Squadron from 5 September 1940 RAF Lee on Solent. Lee on Solent was, along with Gosport, one of the Royal Navy's airfields used in the defence of Southampton and Portsmouth. Royal Navy fighters were permanently based there, and occasionally RAF units were detached, using the airfield in the same way as a satellite or relief landing ground. RAF Lympne. Lympne was one of the 11 Group satellite airfields used by units on a day-to-day basis as required, often flights or squadrons would detach to such an airfield in the morning and return to their main operating and maintenance base in the evening. Due to the extreme forward position of this site it was under constant threat of attack and was not permanently manned during the Battle by any one Squadron. RAF Manston. RAF Manston was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 604 Squadron from 15 May 1940 No 600 Squadron from 20 June 1940 RAF Martlesham. RAF Martlesham was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 25 Squadron from 19 June 1940 No 257 Squadron from 5 September 1940 No 17 Squadron from 8 October 1940 RAF Rochford. RAF Rochford was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 54 Squadron from 25 June 1940 No 264 Squadron from 27 August 1940 No 264 Squadron from 29 October 1940 RAF Stapleford. RAF Stapleford was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 151 Squadron from 29 August 1940 No 46 Squadron from 1 September 1940 RAF Thorney Island. RAF Thorney Island was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 236 Squadron from 4 July 1940 RAF Westhampnett. RAF Westhampnett was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 145 Squadron from 31 July 1940 No 602 Squadron from 13 August 1940 RAF West Malling. RAF West Malling was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 141 Squadron from 12 July 1940 No 66 Squadron from 30 October 1940 10 Group Group Headquarters 10 Group Headquarters was based at RAF Box, the administratve centre. Sector Airfields RAF Filton. RAF Filton was home to the Filton Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 504 Squadron from 26 September 1940 RAF Middle Wallop. RAF Middle Wallop was home to the Middle Wallop Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 236 Squadron from 14 June 1940 No 238 Squadron from 20 June 1940 No 401 Squadron RCAF from 21 June 1940 No 501 Squadron from 4 July 1940 No 609 Squadron from 5 July 1940 No 604 Squadron from 26 July 1940 No 222 Squadron from 13 August 1940 No 238 Squadron from 10 September 1940 No 23 Squadron from 12 September to 25 September 1940 Fighter Airfields RAF Boscombe Down. RAF Boscombe Down was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 249 Squadron from 14 August 1940 No 56 Squadron from 1 September 1940 RAF Colerne. RAF Colerne was used as a satellite and relief airfield for Middle Wallop during the Battle, units rotated in and out of the station on a daily basis. RAF Exeter. RAF Exeter was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 213 Squadron from 18 June 1940 No 87 Squadron from 5 July 1940 No 601 Squadron from 7 September 1940 RAF Pembrey. RAF Pembrey was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 92 Squadron from 18 June 1940 No 79 Squadron from 8 September 1940 RAF Roborough. RAF Roborough was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 247 Squadron from 1 August 1940 RAF St Eval. RAF St Eval was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 222 Squadron from 18 June 1940 No 236 Squadron from 8 August 1940 No 238 Squadron from 14 August 1940 No 222 Squadron from 11 September 1940 RAF Warmwell. RAF Warmwell was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 152 Squadron from 12 July 1940 12 Group Group Headquarters 12 Group Headquarters was based at RAF Watnall, the administratve centre. Sector Airfields RAF Church Fenton. RAF Church Fenton was home to the Church Fenton Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 87 Squadron from 26 May 1940 No 73 Squadron from 18 June 1940 No 249 Squadron from 8 July 1940 No 85 Squadron from 5 September 1940 RAF Digby. RAF Digby was home to the Digby Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 46 Squadron from 13 June 1940 No 29 Squadron from 27 June 1940 No 46 Squadron from 19 August 1940 No 151 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 611 Squadron from 10 October 1939 RAF Duxford. RAF Duxford was home to the Duxford Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 264 Squadron from 10 May 1940 No 19 Squadron from 3 July 1940 No 310 Squadron from 10 July 1940 No 46 Squadron from 18 August 1940 No 312 Squadron from 29 August 1940 No 242 Squadron from 26 October 1940 No 19 Squadron from 30 October 1940 RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey. RAF Kirton-in-Lindsey was home to the Kirton-in-Lindsey Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 222 Squadron from 4 June 1939 No 253 Squadron from 24 May 1940 No 264 Squadron from 23 July 1940 No 74 Squadron from 21 August 1940 No 264 Squadron from 28 August 1940 No 616 Squadron from 9 September 1940 No 85 Squadron from 23 October 1940 RAF Wittering. RAF Wittering was home to the Wittering Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 266 Squadron from 14 May 1940 No 74 Squadron from 14 August 1940 No 266 Squadron from 21 August 1940 No 1 Squadron from 9 September 1940 Fighter Airfields RAF Coltishall. RAF Coltishall was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 66 Squadron from 29 May 1940 No 242 Squadron from 18 June 1940 No 616 Squadron from 3 September 1940 No 74 Squadron from 9 September 1940 No 72 Squadron from 13 October 1940 RAF Leconfield. RAF Leconfield was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 249 Squadron from 18 May 1940 No 616 Squadron from 6 June 1940 No 302 Squadron from 13 July 1940 No 303 Squadron from 11 October 1940 RAF Tern Hill. Tern Hill was one of the 12 Group airfields used for resting units, and as a training airfield and maintneance depot. It was used as a relief landing ground and as a temporary base for night fighters operating against raids on Liverpool and cities in the north midlands. 13 Group Group Headquarters 13 Group Headquarters was based at RAF Newcastle, the administratve centre. Sector Airfields RAF Acklington. RAF Acklington was home to the Acklington Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 72 Squadron from 6 June 1940 No 79 Squadron from 13 July 1940 No 32 Squadron from 28 August 1940 No 610 Squadron from 31 August 1940 RAF Dyce. RAF Dyce was home to the Dyce Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 248 Squadron from 22 May 1940 No 141 Squadron from 22 August 1940 No 145 Squadron from 31 August 1940 No 1 Squadron from 9 October 1940 RAF Turnhouse. RAF Turnhouse was home to the Turnhouse Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 603 Squadron from 5 May 1940 No 141 Squadron from 28 June 1940 No 253 Squadron from 21 July 1940 No 65 Squadron from 28 August 1940 No 141 Squadron from 30 August 1940 No 1 Squadron from 14 September 1940 No 607 Squadron from 10 October 1940 RAF Usworth. RAF Usworth was home to the Usworth Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 607 Squadron from 5 June 1940 No 43 Squadron from 8 September 1940 RAF Wick. RAF Wick was home to the Wick Sector Operations Room and Staff, and the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 1 Squadron from 23 May 1940 Fighter Airfields RAF Catterick. RAF Catterick was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 219 Squadron from 4 October 1939 No 41 Squadron from 8 June 1940 No 54 Squadron from 28 July 1940 No 41 Squadron from 8 August 1940 No 504 Squadron from 1 September 1940 No 54 Squadron from 3 September 1940 No 600 Squadron from 12 October 1940 RAF Drem. RAF Drem was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 145 Squadron from 14 August 1940 No 263 Squadron from 2 September 1940 No 111 Squadron from 8 September 1940 No 141 Squadron from 15 October 1940 RAF Grangemouth. RAF Grangemouth was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 263 Squadron from 28 June 1940 RAF Kirkwall. RAF Kirkwall was used as a satellite and relief airfield for fighter and coastal operations over the Scottish Islands and naval bases there. RAF Sumburgh. RAF Sumburgh was home to the following Squadrons during the Battle: No 248 Squadron from 20 July 1940 No 248 Squadron from 31 July 1940
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Il-2Bugtracker: Feature #200: Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 Il-2Bugtracker: Bug #415: Spitfire Mk I, Ia, and Mk II: Stability and Control http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415 Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! http://kurfurst.org 
Last edited by Kurfürst; 04-03-2011 at 01:55 PM. |
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#44
04-03-2011, 01:57 PM
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Unfortunately the squadron movement is even more confusing that that list would suggest.
take for example 54 squadron. although it was 'based' at Hornchurch, because Rochford and Manston were the 'satalite' airfields for Hornchurch, individual flights or the squadron as a whole were often despatched to these airfields for the day, returning to hornchurch at night. some official records for 54 squadron from July,      heres a useful link to from which i got these and you can find quite a few squadrons operational records during BoB, just enter the squadron, year and month  http://www.oldrafrecords.com/ really interesting site, just wish it was more complete, its really great for mission building. Last edited by fruitbat; 04-03-2011 at 02:04 PM. |
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#45
04-03-2011, 02:01 PM
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Great find and good point...
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Il-2Bugtracker: Feature #200: Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 Il-2Bugtracker: Bug #415: Spitfire Mk I, Ia, and Mk II: Stability and Control http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415 Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! http://kurfurst.org
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#46
04-03-2011, 02:14 PM
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So we need a +12 boost spit and hurri. Just one question: For how long could the +12 boost be engaged?
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#48
04-03-2011, 02:18 PM
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#49
04-03-2011, 02:18 PM
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No problem Kurfürst, just a matter of a few minutes and a good look at the RAF website vs. the combat reports on Mike Williams' site (is there not another source for these RAF combat reports anywhere else on the internet?). I'm not convinced myself that the supply was universal, but my personal impression is that at the very least 11 Group was converted almost universally before the battle "began".
Could I ask whether anyone is aware whether it's true (and I'm not sure where I heard this suggested) that the sector airfields and their satellites were supplied from the same depots? This would clear up a lot of the confusion, since we could then assume that many of the permanent fighter airfields were supplied as well. Thanks VERY much for that link, fruitbat, I'll go through as many squadron ORBs from there as I can get to examine the 100 octane situation, when the squadron received CSUs, and indeed whether they were De Havilland or Rotol units, because if I remember correctly Kurfürst has posted in the past evidence that the De Havilland units were not as well-regarded by the RAF, and the widespread conversion to Rotol units afterwards seems to support this. It's a pity the German record situation is not as complete or available. 
Last edited by TheGrunch; 04-03-2011 at 02:26 PM. |
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#50
04-03-2011, 02:25 PM
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You have to remember that the only RAF aircraft (as far as I'm aware) which would be using 100 octane fuel are the Spitfire, Hurricane and Defiant. I'm pretty sure (given stock levels during the battle) that the fuel was used universally amongst the groups. As we all know, squadrons changed groups as and when needed so the need for the fuel would of still been there, although I'd imagine an aircraft using 100 octane fuel would still be able to use 87 octane if needed...without the performance boost of course.
*EDIT* Apologies if this has already been posted but Swallow has found an interesting piece of information in the Spitfire I pilot notes, Section 2; Handling and flying notes for the pilot, supplied with the Collector's Edition; Fuel: - Operational units: 100 octane only. Other units: 87 octane Last edited by Moggy; 04-03-2011 at 02:35 PM. |
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