Artillery

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Nikitns

Crni, mate, no offence but I think u just dont have enough exp in multi.

Maybe. I never said I am professional or great player.

Originally Posted by Nikitns

C
T29 has the strongest gun in the game, and has similar frontal armour to tiger2. the weakness of the T29 is terrible side armour.

Right. And thats why its seen very rarely against the axis heavy tanks. I cant remember many using it or really achieve much with it.

I can only say it again. When ever I see it my Tiger II has no issue to take it out. From the front. Similar to the IS3. Just get close enough and the gun will punch right trough the armor. On the other side I only very rarely got my Tiger II penetrated from the front be it the T29 or the IS3. If I am honest I cant remember any single time.

The Tiger II and German armor in general is anyway way to cheap. If anything the Tiger II should be more around 140 points. I find it even boring when playing with the axis already.

Originally Posted by Nikitns

Sturmtiger has reload speed similar to Katusha. It is easy target if tracks are knocked out.

IF. Emphais on IF its tracks are taken out. That is not something you can always count on. By the way the Sturmtiger is quite well armored on the front. Nothing of that is something you can say about the Katyusha or the other rocket artillery. Why? Cause even a close hit from powerfull guns will destroy them. So the Sturmtiger is a artillery with a class of its own. If you want so.

Originally Posted by Nikitns

ISU152 is without a doubt the best tank killer in the soviet army (just as it was IRL). It eats panthers, jagdpanthers and jagdpanzers for breakfast (HE shell at their roof = dead, the armour piercing shell of the ISU-152 destroys any slope made due to the arc of fire).

If what you face are panthers, Jagdpanthers, Jagdpanzer IV etc. And onl IF you manage to hit them on their roof/armor succesfully. All of this are big IFs. On the other side. Many times it boils down to ISU vs Tiger II, Elefant and Jagdtiger. And here the ISU is just not really very succesfull if the enemy isnt doing you the favour to show you his weak side. You can do great against the Tiger 1 and Panther. Once the Jagdpanther survived a hit it has a good chance to take out the ISU.

I dont see much issues with the ISU. particularly against medium and some heavy armor. But I would not call it a succesfull tank hunter. It also was not one in real life. What they did was using it with concentrated fire. Acuracy and velocity for the gun was very poor. Reload time as well. Maybe 2 shoots per minute. If anything. Probably less. The panther could shoot 6-8 times per minute. If not even more. Similar for the Tiger II and Jagdpanther. It depends very much on the skill of the crew. It is one of the reason why the SU100 was designed to have a good tank hunter beeing designed with that role. The ISU if anything was an assault gun meant to destroy any fortifications and eventualy counter enemy guns and it was good enough in that role though it was also not comparable with self propeled guns like the Hummel, Sexton or Priest which had in general a higher range and accuracy the ISU got later replaced by real artillery the development of 152mm nuclear shells keept it in service till the 70s. The ISU for example had not the option to fire in a very high arch unlike real self propeled artillery. For its time the ISU was a overall good vehicle. But it was a Soviet design which tried to overcome the shortcomings of its design with using it in high numbers for example ~ concentrated fire and as well using the size of its gun. The reload time was slow as said but this was not seen so much as issue cause the size of the gun was so large.

Originally Posted by Nikitns

When things boil down to it all, I think the factions are beautifully balanced. Thing is, with some factions you have to rely less on armour, while using primarily infantry and artillery (infantry and artillery can kill armour well if used correctly).

I cant really agree.

If it would be really balanced we would see more fighting with other nations then Soviet vs Axis which is probably the closest in balance you will get.

You cant tell me that the Japanese are "balanced". Or the British. Maybe with numbers yes. But since a game is usualy piting people in a 1vs1 situation you cant really say its balanced and the advantage of German armor shows very fast its effect. The British for example have no good heavy tank in their arsenal. The centurion is if anything superior to the panther/tiger 1. The only heavy armor they have is the heavy tank hunter. But that was it. They dont even get their self propelled artillery!

As said if you get 2 groups playing against each other with exactly the same skills I am somewhat certain the brits will loose against the axis.

[Korsakov829]

The weakness with all US tanks is the side armor. A 45mm can punch a hole in the side of most of their tanks, even the little 20mm Luchs can tear holes in a Shermans rear. A head on rush is suicide against the T29, the only way to deal with one is a side shot or a few grenades to the engine. Unless you get a good chance its best to leave a T29 alone. The only tank of theirs I've had problems piercing the side is the Pershing.

As for that ISU-152 the only thing I've killed with that is infantry and a Puma. I would have better luck with a Hummel. I'm sure the ISU-152 is good for some people, but I prefer light tanks and infantry rushes along with rocket artillery.

The British tanks are not all that great. They got the numbers, I got the Jagdtiger. The Japaneese tanks are alright, got to love that mortar on a truck. I am against a balanced game. If the only thing different with the IS3, King Tiger, and T29 was the appearance, it would make Men of War a horrible game.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

I can only say it again. When ever I see it my Tiger II has no issue to take it out. From the front. Similar to the IS3. Just get close enough and the gun will punch right trough the armor. On the other side I only very rarely got my Tiger II penetrated from the front be it the T29 or the IS3. If I am honest I cant remember any single time.

.

The T29 just has a good gun, its hull armor is only like 100, its kinda like a big Centurion, good gun, good turret armor but hull armor like a Halftrack. Only thing making the T29 good at all is its big @$$ gun. As for losing King Tigers to those, I know of 2 times I lost them to Frontal hits, 1 of which was a shot prolly 60m away or so..so close shot, meanwhile I was pounding rounds back at him, we both got off about 3 shots each. And the Centurion, I dont even waste my time buying it....its expensive and not worth the points...its got the same gun as a Firefly and its armor is barely better.

[Korsakov829]

The T29 is terrible. Its big, bulky, hard to turn. That 105mm isn't going to protect itself from everything. What I really dislike about it and the Tiger and King Tiger is the slow turret rotation. I do like that 2x .50 cal, which is really good at chopping down infantry, and how fast it sends a 105mm. Its the slowest unit you can find on the battlefield, unable to keep up with the rest of the team. Good for a defensive person, but its just a big hunk of metal in any other field.

Its not for me. I like a good fast tank able to take a few shots from a 88mm, and with a fast turning 57mm or 76mm turret.

[Crni vuk]

I agree in a defensive style the T29 can prove to be a nasty obstacle. Or at least to keep the heavy tanks bussy enough so you can find a way to take them out with infantry, artillrey or flanking. But its just way to expensive for what you can do with it in the game. Youre in a better position eventualy with a few M36 jacksons waiting for some ambush or Pershings with infantry. Or another artillery unit etc. With the Tiger II you dont have much of that kind of problem. Its a killer weapon. If used correctly. Its for a heavy vehicle extremly versatile deployable.

At the moment when playing the US/Brits/Japs its better to keep up so much preasure on the Germans so they wont get a chance to use the Tiger II then to eventualy trying to counter it with your own heavy tanks. Thing is in a match with somewhat equal skill the match is easier for the Axis then compared to the other nations simply cause they have access to so many different forms of equipment. Be it with the Sturmtiger artillery (its more used like a tank hunter in game ...) or the Tiger II super heavy tank. And when people know that you are trying to wear them down they will take advantage from that. Thing is with playing the axis you simply have no reason to "wear" the enemy down so much cause you know nothing they can bring up in the field will take out your heavy armor from the front.


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Originally Posted by Korsakov829

The weakness with all US tanks is the side armor. A 45mm can punch a hole in the side of most of their tanks, even the little 20mm Luchs can tear holes in a Shermans rear. A head on rush is suicide against the T29, the only way to deal with one is a side shot or a few grenades to the engine. Unless you get a good chance its best to leave a T29 alone. The only tank of theirs I've had problems piercing the side is the Pershing.

I am not sure if that is a trait only specificaly tied to the US vehicles as weak sides are usualy present with most armored vehicles. Except the Tiger 1 eventualy which is well enough protected to be even from the side hard to penetrate by any gun smaller then 75mm. But most of the tanks are quite vulnerable to shoots to the side. Like they should be. ~ I still think though the heavy tanks are not weak enough to side shoots! To many time you get a perfect chance to shoot their side just to see the shoot doing nothing at all. Even on max distance for example a T34/76 should have a good chance to penetrate the 40mm of the Panthers side up to 1000m. And the T34/85 anyway!.

Originally Posted by Korsakov829

The British tanks are not all that great. They got the numbers, I got the Jagdtiger. The Japaneese tanks are alright, got to love that mortar on a truck. I am against a balanced game. If the only thing different with the IS3, King Tiger, and T29 was the appearance, it would make Men of War a horrible game.

Of course I can agree with that. Hence why I think the balance to the game should be brought by the points a unit costs. And making the Tiger II just the same or almost the same points like the other units is not that good in my eyes it should be more around 140 points. Even when I have the chance to play on the axis side. It just happens that in such situations the medium armor/equipment gets not used very frequently and most just go for the big guns. Which is not completely wrong. But it should be really something you have to consider. To bring in the Tiger II in the battle takes often enough the tactic out of the game just like a senesless artillery spam for example. But thats my oppinion.

Thing why I see the Germans as slightly overpowered right now is cause they have a wide range of tools to choose from artillery, to infantry and tanks. With the Elefant as excelent tank hunter better then the Jagdpanther since it cant be killed from the front by the ISU that easily and it is much cheaper then the Jagdtiger. The Tiger II without any doubts is the overall best heavy tank in the game. And for the medium ranges and armor you have the Panther and Tiger. I rarely see the Panzer IV H in action though. But thats cause its unrealisticaly modeled in my eyes. The panze IV H has already trouble facing the KV tanks and T34s when in reality it had not. But thast a whole different story. With the infantry for example one thing I dont understand is why other nations dont get rockets as well while the German assault infantry AND paratroopers get access to powerfull anti tank rockets. There should be more piats and bzookas in the British and US arsenal as well. At least with their elite troops.

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

...

THe centurion is extremly versatile if used more like a medium/heavy vehicle then a super heavy vehicle. Its really more something to beat the Panther or Tiger 1 with success. As said. When you play on the British you really have not much to counter the Tiger II, Elefant of Jagdtiger. Except for the tortoise. But thats 1 vehicle!

[Korsakov829]

That toroise can't penetrate the front of the Jagdtiger. The best you can do against the Jagdtiger is disable its gun or flank it. The Jagdtiger should last about 15-60 minutes before giving in to a shot from the side or rear.

A T34/76 against a Panther never did it for me. I take a T34/57 or T26 and hit the rear. All tanks have a unique property and flaws. The IS3 is fast and can take most hits, the King Tiger has a good gun but slow turret, and the T29 has a good gun but is overall very slow.

You just need to use the tanks right, using set tactics for each nation.
USSR = Fast tanks and infantry rushes.
Germany = Strong durable tanks followed by infantry.
USA = Many good medium tanks side by side.
Great Britain = Artillery followed by light tanks.
Japan = Heavy mortar support, cheap tanks covering infantry with AT mines.

[Crni vuk]

yeah but I just think scoring a hit to the flank of tanks is way to hard. I mean had so many times where for example a Tiger 1 was not able to penetrate the side of the IS1, IS2 etc. Or a T34785 could do no damage to the Panthers side, regardles of a clear hit. Only cause the game decided that the shell had not enough "force" to punch trough the armor. Thats the thing when you try to play the game somewhat with realism in mind ... took me some time figure out that MoW has more or less its own rules.

I mean I am not saying that everything should be simply like in real otherwise the Pak44 would simply rule the battlefield. But side shoots should be somewhat more obvious. That would also force people to not just spam the heavy armor as you would loose it faster.

[Korsakov829]

Getting a hit on the side of a tank is easy. Just drive next to its side and shoot at it. If all else fails, just throw something at the tank, like a grenade or TNT. A Tiger or Panther you might have a hard time against.

Just shoot the thing and hope it blows up.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

With the infantry for example one thing I dont understand is why other nations dont get rockets as well while the German assault infantry AND paratroopers get access to powerfull anti tank rockets. There should be more piats and bzookas in the British and US arsenal as well. At least with their elite troops.

The Stormtroopers have Panzerfaust and those were common...kinda like the US and Trucks.... The Allies have thier Bazookas and Piat soldiers..they have Rockets..they seem pretty powerful enough, atleast when they get shot at me. Sadly, ive lost about 5 King Tigers to 1 Zooka shot to the side haha, yeah im terrible w/ Infantry cover....=P

[Korsakov829]

Group squads with tanks/artillery and the squad will move with the tanks when ordered to. A double click will tell the tank to proceed at full speed, and your infantry will fall behind. Grouping tanks and squads together is a safe thing to do when advancing, but won't always keep your tank safe.

The safest thing you can do with tanks is go slow, use officers to spot men in bushes, over small hills, etc. Have 3 man squad left and right of your tank, and a mine sweeper up front. If your tank has a MG turret, make it face the back so nobody sneaks up on you with TNT or a grenade.