"The Gruesome Twosome Tournament" - 2vs2 SIM ONLY (PS3 & XBOX)

[edal86]

Important Discussion, please read and post opinion

Originally Posted by KAV

Opninions:

Plane
I had some matches the last days in the I-16, and found it fun to dogfight in, but I have some thoughts about it being the chosen for this tournament.

The I-16 is a slow plane. From my experience from the P51 tourney, there will be different maps in use, with different spawn areas. In the P51 tournament there was a lot of time flying to get positions and after kills get to fly away due to the disengagement rule.
Flying the I-16 under these circumstances seems to gain a disadvantage of the purpose of the tournament.
There will be a lot of flying, and less fighting. Figure it as we have to team up, fly in position, locate the enemy, there might just be about the time when your engine shut down at the point when battle engages.

If we are tho honor the Devs, what about some other russian plane, IL4, Il2 M or maybe the IL 10 ?

Yes, I was kidding. we got great fighters like LA-5, LA-7 and the yaks......

Scoring
How to locate wingman or wingleader ? we all got same skins ?

KAV,
Thanks for your post. You may be right, the I-16 engine dies out very quickly especially if you use WEP for long periods of time (flying across maps). I would not like the idea of my ammo outlasting my engine if you know what I mean. However, the LA's are out of the question, they are simply too easy and perfect to fly. I would go more for the YAK's. Also, this way we can have different variants to choose from.

Again, regarding scoring for downing a Flight Lead, you will know at the end of the match or whenever you die how many times your team has killed the opponent's flight lead. Your opponent may not know who is your team's Flight lead during the dogfight but you will, and you will have to not only worry about bringing your enemy's planes down but also about working with your wingman in order to prevent your flight lead from being shot down (as much). Or maybe,by using YAKs, we can now be able to distinguish the wingman from the flight lead by having teams fly different variants of the YAK.

Keep posting please, and comment on the discussion above, this is what is building up this tournament; your suggestions. Thank you again

[MACADEMIC]

Here's my 2 cents on the recent comments and suggestions.

First, about the wingleader / wingman idea. For me it seems to unnecessarily complicate things, as in a modern 2 aircraft flight section these roles are pretty interchangable ( -> Loose Deuce Tactics). And which ever element of the section is being shot down, it's an equally great loss for the strength of that section.

Next, about the I-16. There is no inherently built in necessity to burn the engine out by overusing WEP. The engine runs just fine if you don't do this and don't negative G it too much. This really adds a dimension most other planes are lacking of, and remember: Birds of Steel will feature some more complex engine management options in the highest levels of the game, so this might also be a good preparation. I can also not agree with the arguement that there may not be enough fighting if we're using this plane. The distances are really not that big, and even with the disengagement rule applied we should see plenty of contact opportunities for two aggressive teams facing off (there will however always be the possiblity that one team prefers defensive tactics and wait for having the upper hand before engaging - this choice remains with each team, no matter what aircraft is used). The I-16 is Russian, has its challenges, and most imortantly, is a unique fun airplane with it's open cockpit and maneuverability. So I'd really not see why it shouldn't be a suitable plane for the tournament. The way I see it, it should be up to the tournament's organizer to decide on the plane/s which he wants to allow. This would really be Edal in this case as I've only given the initial impulse, but all the organizing is being done by Edal this time. So I'm only voicing my opinion here, but Edal, please decide.

One last question. What do you think of the idea that if one team member is killed it counts as if the whole team was killed, so essentially each kill/death counts double? This way the remaining team member would have the choice of remaining on the battlefield facing a big disadvantage (and the chance of another 2 point loss), or bailing and respawning very closely to his teammate with the chance of regrouping for a fresh encounter. This way we'd most likely keep the concept of 2vs2 intact.

MAC

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

Here's my 2 cents on the recent comments and suggestions.

First, about the wingleader / wingman idea. For me it seems to unnecessarily complicate things, as in a modern 2 aircraft flight section these roles are pretty interchangable ( -> Loose Deuce Tactics). And which ever element of the section is being shot down, it's an equally great loss for the strength of that section.

Next, about the I-16. There is no inherently built in necessity to burn the engine out by overusing WEP. The engine runs just fine if you don't do this and don't negative G it too much. This really adds a dimension most other planes are lacking of, and remember: Birds of Steel will feature some more complex engine management options in the highest levels of the game, so this might also be a good preparation. I can also not agree with the arguement that there may not be enough fighting if we're using this plane. The distances are really not that big, and even with the disengagement rule applied we should see plenty of contact opportunities for two aggressive teams facing off (there will however always be the possiblity that one team prefers defensive tactics and wait for having the upper hand before engaging - this choice remains with each team, no matter what aircraft is used). The I-16 is Russian, has its challenges, and most imortantly, is a unique fun airplane with it's open cockpit and maneuverability. So I'd really not see why it shouldn't be a suitable plane for the tournament. The way I see it, it should be up to the tournament's organizer to decide on the plane/s which he wants to allow. This would really be Edal in this case as I've only given the initial impulse, but all the organizing is being done by Edal this time. So I'm only voicing my opinion here, but Edal, please decide.

+1

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

One last question. What do you think of the idea that if one team member is killed it counts as if the whole team was killed, so essentially each kill/death counts double? This way the remaining team member would have the choice of remaining on the battlefield facing a big disadvantage (and the chance of another 2 point loss), or bailing and respawning very closely to his teammate with the chance of regrouping for a fresh encounter. This way we'd most likely keep the concept of 2vs2 intact.

So you mean when 1 man gets shot down (2 scored) the 2nd gets to choose a free death (0 scored) or to fight on alone and suffer another 2 scored if shot down? The problem I see in this is that a picture or indeed a writen down score of the result would not show any of these choices made.

My vote would be for keeping it simple, 1 death equalls 1 scored no matter who it is. If a team plays the match as waves of 1 man rather than 2 men working together then they will suffer untill they realise there mistake and learn to work together. I don't think we need an artifical way of doing this. If your wingman is shot down, you are on your own, a smart pilot would retreat back to pick up his respawned wingmate, maybe even trying to lure an enemy plane into a trap. Here the I-16's limited WEP makes some more intersting decisions like do you risk WEP to retreat, or do you risk a slower engine friendly retreat and hope the enemy isn't caning their engine to catch you.

[themeistor1]

Originally Posted by JRHOODY1

themiester and me would like to team up ps3 psn same as on forum will get themiester to post to,

ok m8 lets do it ,i'm in
yaks are a good choice

[JRHOODY1]

1-16 was flyinging with some fine pilots yesterday and i have got to say it is a fun little plane to fly my vote 1-16 guys,

[KAV]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

Here's my 2 cents on the recent comments and suggestions.



Next, about the I-16.......... all the organizing is being done by Edal this time. So I'm only voicing my opinion here, but Edal, please decide.



MAC

Mac
I believe Edal made it clear in his initial post:


Please Vote!
1. What planes should we allow?
Should we make this tournament: I-16 planes only, I-16 and P-51 planes only, or other. (the reason behind using these planes is to honor both the Devs and the P-51 Club)



Lets make a poll amongst the participants.

[MACADEMIC]

You're right KAV,

but in my own humble opinion, there must be a time for discussion, and then there must be a decision. It doesn't help anyone if this drags on for too long, it would now be better to decide on a type so we can all get to practice before the tourney. Sometimes even autocratic decisions can have their merits. For example, before we launched the Ace of Aces Mustang Trophy, very few people liked the P-51, and after the tourney's introduction there was a bit of moaning why we had decided on this type instead of a Spitfire and so on. But it was a set decision from the start and we didn't discuss it. And since the tournament it's become a really popular plane.

But I don't mind a vote either should Edal want that. But let's decide.

MAC

[olife]

no probs for me ,i will use planes allowed.

[McQ59]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

[SIZE="4"]


So you mean when 1 man gets shot down (2 scored) the 2nd gets to choose a free death (0 scored) or to fight on alone and suffer another 2 scored if shot down? The problem I see in this is that a picture or indeed a writen down score of the result would not show any of these choices made.

My vote would be for keeping it simple, 1 death equalls 1 scored no matter who it is. If a team plays the match as waves of 1 man rather than 2 men working together then they will suffer untill they realise there mistake and learn to work together. I don't think we need an artifical way of doing this. If your wingman is shot down, you are on your own, a smart pilot would retreat back to pick up his respawned wingmate, maybe even trying to lure an enemy plane into a trap. Here the I-16's limited WEP makes some more intersting decisions like do you risk WEP to retreat, or do you risk a slower engine friendly retreat and hope the enemy isn't caning their engine to catch you.

I go with the Pope on this; Let's keep it simple. Less room for "misunderstandings" that way.

And the idea of using the yaks is brilliant imo. Secondary I go for a poll on the planes in question.

[hurricane]

Originally Posted by U2711AZ

Ok. Please add me on the xbox list players . May i suggest this? 2 planes. For example : 1st match team A spitfire vs team B bf 109 - 2nd match reverse. Thx.

that might be a good idea.it would help with enemy identification.trouble is axis planes have no cockpit.allied planes are going to be shooting down allied planes anyway so why not do it with planes with cockpits.
p.s.if you are going to decide on one plane I would vote for the yak.fast enough,nice cockpit,decent in turns,and you have to be a pretty good shot if your not close.