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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #41  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:49 AM
lonewulf lonewulf is offline
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If you want a wider grouping of your projectiles, just set your convergence for 250m, and start shooting at 200. That will significantly increase the size of the beaten zone on the target aircraft.
So-called 'point' convergence, like any other form of harmonization, is intended to concentrate your projectiles on your point of aim. This is to some extent theoretical because speed, recoil and gravity all conspire to widen the grouping of your shots. Concentrating the impact point of projectiles in air combat greatly increases the potential for a catastrophic failure of the target air frame. If the pilot is part of that catastrophic failure so much the better, however, as far as I know, pilot targeting has never have been considered a realistic proposition when formulating convergence. That would be like shooting ducks on the wing with the intention of head-shooting them. While, that would be ideal, it's just not realistic. That said, many ducks do end up shot through the head.
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  #42  
Old 11-01-2012, 11:52 AM
hegykc hegykc is offline
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Well, after a whole night testing session all I cans say is, single point convergence sucks all the way.

Quick mission against 2 He-111 bombers. Steady targets to practice my deflection shooting.
1. Wide spread convergence:
Flown probably 50 times and 45/50 I down the bomber with a pilot kill. Coming from the left side at a 45 degree deflection and a little above, I get him in 2-3 passes with half second bursts or even less. And every pass one or two gunners get killed.
2. Single point convergence:
Same thing but the difference is drastic. Out of 10 pases maybe 1 or 2 gunner kills and the pilot might as well not be there because I haven't been able to kill him.

Oh and by the way, I did all this with one hand on the keyboard and other on the mouse cause my joystick's broken.
So it's not like it's a close call. Single point sucks. You're wondering how those russian guys get all those pilot kills. Widen your spread, let every gun have it's own trajectory and see how you start shooting pilots like little baby ducks.

Range was 150 meters or even closer. Deflection mandatory, shooting from behind is a complete waste.
For the He-111 either a 30-45 deflection from the left side, or 45 from above and inverted, pilot kill guaranteed within a couple of good passes.

EDIT: Oh and when I missed the cockpit and landed hits on the wing, a minimum of two or three leakage streams appeared

Last edited by hegykc; 11-01-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:28 PM
hegykc hegykc is offline
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There you go, 3 bombers down by pilot kills, and that's just the last attempt. I've done probably more than 30 pilot kills on the first day experimenting with wider convergence. Only once have I sent the bomber down by damaging the aircraft itself, after 2 well placed half second bursts.

And that's with a keyboard and mouse, pfff.

Best part is at the end, where I get frustrated because I've missed the pilot twice and then I turn into him.. bye bye ducky.

[youtube]

Last edited by hegykc; 11-01-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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  #44  
Old 11-01-2012, 05:45 PM
hegykc hegykc is offline
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And here, what two well place shots at the right convergence can do to a bomber, in the drink in less than a second! Havent filmed the first one but it's just a half second burst to the right wing.

[youtube]
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  #45  
Old 11-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Fredfetish Fredfetish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstyle View Post
you need to Reverse the horizontal and vertical convergences in game. The game has them around the wrong way.

This is already reversed, so enter it exactly as specified: It works quite well:
Outboard (guns 1 and : 300 vert and 120 hor
Guns 2 and 7: 300 and 268
Guns 3 and 6: 370 and 370
Inboard (Guns 4 and 5): 342 and 275

I just tested the above with tracers in all 8 guns. Gives a good cone of fire out to fairly long range.
Thx for this!
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  #46  
Old 11-04-2012, 05:06 PM
swift swift is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hegykc View Post
Before I scare away people with some more complicated stuff, here's a picture:





Now, something more complicated:

This are the harmonization and gun convergences for the P-51 mustang.
  • No.1 guns converge at 1,000 feet / at sight line (inboard)
  • No.2 guns converge at 1,100 feet / 11 inches below sight line (middle)
  • No.3 guns converge at 1,200 feet / 18 inches above sight line (outboard)

From that you can see that the guns not only don't meet at the same convergence horizontally, but not even vertically.



I managed to model .303 caliber bullet trajectories in one of my CAD programs, and I tried to copy the same pattern seen in the P-51 charts. This harmonization pattern is there for a reason, it's not as simple as setting a one point convergence.

Spitfire/Hurricane convergences in the picture should greatly improve kill/damage probabilities for pilots that are not excellent marksmen.

I do not have a joystick at the moment so I need volunteers to test this out.
Preferably pilots who are flying online for a while now, and know their kill ratio and skill level. To see if there will be any improvement.

I put this in the main forum so that as many people as possible see it, because it should really make things easier for the average pilot reading through the front page mainly.

150 yards harmonization, and more advanced patterns coming up..
This is interesting, but I do not quite understand your pics. The values on the left side are the convergence settings in yards or meters in the Clod user interface for gun convergence? That is what is written there as horizontally should be put as horizontally in the game (vertical value likewise)?

The sight convergence is what I have to set my gun convergence distance (again in yards and meters?) and then I have to approach the plane to the indicated distance in order to achieve the hit area pattern as indicated in the pic? Please help a confused pilot.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-2012, 12:01 PM
hegykc hegykc is offline
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Well after a week of testing I found out that I had the "only 2 guns firing" bug on my single point conversion tests.

And than when I fixed it, I cannot see a significant difference between a single point and my setup, from ranges of 100 meters or less.

What I can take away from this is that pilot kills (from 100 meters or less) are so easy they're actually hard to avoid. After murdering more than 100 pilots I started testing the setup on engines but gave up.
It takes only a half second burst into the upper cockpit, shooting from the left side and the pilot is toasted. Any type of ammo any type of target, any convergence setup from 100 to 1000 meters.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2012, 01:21 PM
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ATAG_Snapper ATAG_Snapper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hegykc View Post
Well after a week of testing I found out that I had the "only 2 guns firing" bug on my single point conversion tests.

And than when I fixed it, I cannot see a significant difference between a single point and my setup, from ranges of 100 meters or less.

What I can take away from this is that pilot kills (from 100 meters or less) are so easy they're actually hard to avoid. After murdering more than 100 pilots I started testing the setup on engines but gave up.
It takes only a half second burst into the upper cockpit, shooting from the left side and the pilot is toasted. Any type of ammo any type of target, any convergence setup from 100 to 1000 meters.
Great thread, Hegykc. Time for me to practice some offline deflection shooting.

Does anyone know if ballistic energy depletion over distance is modelled in Cliffs of Dover? ie. An AP round is far more effective in penetration power at 100 yards vs 1000 yards (accuracy notwithstanding).
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  #49  
Old 11-06-2012, 03:22 PM
hegykc hegykc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper View Post
Great thread, Hegykc. Time for me to practice some offline deflection shooting.

Does anyone know if ballistic energy depletion over distance is modelled in Cliffs of Dover? ie. An AP round is far more effective in penetration power at 100 yards vs 1000 yards (accuracy notwithstanding).
I think I can confirm that.

If you set your convergence at say 300 meters and shoot at 100 meters or even less, you still inflict massive damage even though the bullet patterns are spread out. More damage than if you had shot at 300 meters even though you'd get perfect bullet concentration.

This might also be in large due to the fact that at 300 meters the big He-111 is just a dot in the sights and your firing more or less blindly at the whole aircraft and hope you hit something vital.
While at 100 meters you can actually aim at an engine, wing fuel tank or the pilot.

Seems to me the .303 caliber (at least in game) is pretty much useless at more than 200 meters, and takes a lot of hits to do significant damage at more than 130 meters.

This is all tested on bombers.
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  #50  
Old 11-06-2012, 04:20 PM
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ATAG_Snapper ATAG_Snapper is offline
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That answers my question....thank you!!
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