Shaman Karrakh quest chain..?! (Spoilers)

[Vulture]

Knights are only an option if you can afford to teleport them. The Baton is for ldr anyway. The +1 human morale might as well not be on it and nobody would care.

I can't tell you if Royal Snakes will work better for you than Ancient Vampires. Try it and see for yourself.
Don't worry about the speed, you'll never move them in human form anyway. Transforming into Bat form costs no Action Points. And whoever told you the Bat damage isn't good is probably doing it wrong ^^

[Helios]

@ Vulture: In your Cruel Haas topic as a Paladin was that on Impossible? I just wondered since you mention you made it to level 29 in that thread with only one level of learning. I've been trying to pin down how much EXP boost was needed to hit 30 on Impossible. Do you recall if you ever used the Tactics Treatise in that playthrough or other boosts like KotL?

Edit: I've been looking at the screenshots of the high score thread to try and see how much skill investment is needed for EXP boosts, and am shocked at the stats some of these people had! A Mage with 50 Int and 22,000 Leadership!? I see mostly how he got the Int, but I have no idea how he also got Leadership that high. I checked and it was on Impossible. Amazing. And I thought I had a godly item setup this time through!

[msp]

Here you're talking about beating Cruel Haas, right? Why aren't dragons used against him? "If you can't beat them, join them", right?

[Vulture]

@Helios: nevermind the highscore thread. 95% of the posts there are fake. Stuff that is completely impossible. The screens are real, the games were not. There are enough mods that can change anything you want.
The Cruel Haas battle was back in the days when I started. I think it was on hard. I mean it was easy to win ofc but I play no loss campaigns only and I hate spending more than 15 turns to recover. That's what my problem was. I felt like I had a fundamental problem.
I never use exp boosters. Only when I find one early on and have an unused slot. In that particular game I definitely did not use one.

@msp: Dragons are 50%-80% resistant to fire and/or magic. Using dragons against them is thus utterly futile. With the exception of Emerald Greens. But then again, an AI dragon will NEVER go for your Emerald Greens and since their raw damage is pretty unamazing there's no point in bringing some to that battle. This is arguable tho. I don't claim absolute truth on that.

[Madstrike]

I know you reckon I should try ancient vampires, but is there a reason to use those over regular vampires? I mean the ldr per damage is better on the lower ranked vampires, only advantage in bat mode in favor of ancient is that it has slightly better speed and init(and attack). Also using them should I use them always in bat mode, or sometimes in vampire mode, then switch to bat after the battle is almost finished to resurrect some troops?

So what did u use in the end in that Haas battle, I know you were positive on LF, sprites, skellie archers, and demons, but were uncertain on the fifth unit. I could maybe think of a few of possibilities: knights(loads of dragons), ancient vampires, royal snakes, inquisitors, archidemons.

[Vulture]

Why does everybody keep saying Archidemons ? It's Archdemons.

I don't remember what I ended up using but I definitely didn't use Sprites/Lake Fairies and Dryads. I probably got Ancient Vamps and Knights as I always do for the final fight. And I think Emeralds.

As for your question why AVs are better than Vs: you said it yourself. Speed, init (this is vital, with Zombie Rina as a wife and Dark Commander they always go before everything else incl. Black Dragons), Atk plus hp and Defense. You don't really need more reasons to prefer one unit over the other.
As for the usage: that depends on if you use them as tanks or as damage dealers.
If you use them as tanks it's pretty clear. You turn them into bats right away, bring them in and turn them back into humanoid form (will end your turn) and cast a protective spell on them. Or Target if you need. Enemy bashes them in humanoid form, one eats retaliation. In the next round you pause them, take the second beating and then turn them into bats and attack the opponent against who you can do the most damage (=most hp leeched). By the end of this turn your damage dealers should have diminished the opponent enough so you can remain in Bat form. In regular fights with a Warrior you can actually always keep them in Bat form because your Atk is so high that their damage will always restore them. In case of emergency you can still Phantom them and watch the idiots bash the Phantom AVs.

If you use them as damage dealers you just move them in humanoid form after the tank and do the high init strategy where you pause them so they act as the last in the turn. Kill something. In the beginning of the next turn they're first to strike again. Practically a double strike without the enemy having a chance to counteract.

[Helios]

@ Vulture: I finished my Impossible Paladin last night and was looking in awe at that high score thread and figured people must have heavily edited things. I guess I should feel pretty good about my final score and stats. I could have saved 2 days if I hadn't wanted my Fandor's Map for Violetta and forgot one of the Obelisks back in Ellinia, and I charged through the game to get to Karador ASAP because his castle sold the Pain Skull and the promotion from King Mark made the Gladiator Sword for sale. I beat Karador on level 19, which was my greatest achievement in this game yet, and wouldn't have had a chance without 3 levels of Sacred Anger. I'll miss that when I'm not a Paladin! My biggest shock in looking at my final stats is that my Paladin had almost 100 more total runes than any Mage or Warrior I've played. My stats:

Score: 1537, 20 Days
Stats: 27,659 Leadership (I took it at every level and was lucky enough with some of the Knight Set items, Banner of True Belief, and a Baton; 31 Atk 28 Def 23 Int 76 Rage 92 Mana.

On topic: since we've been talking about the benefits of the Poison Dagger and Isshara's Whip, what is your opinion of the Battle Axe (+20% damage to users of cold steel weapons)? I was going through the fan manual and saw it, which has never been in one of my games, and I hadn't heard of it on the forums before.

It works on: Barbarian, Berserker, Black Knight, Demon, Dwarf, Swordsman, Guardsman, Knight, Orc, Veteran Orc, Pirate, Seadog, Skeleton, Vampire, Ancient Vampire, Werewolf Elf, Robber, Marauder, Peasant, Miner, Furious Goblin.

Suddenly, I think my all Dwarf run will make those relatively low leadership and damage Miners and Dwarves into better units!

And on other percentage based equipment: what is your opinion on the Steam Armor, Drill, and Silver Rapier? I haven't been impressed by any of them in when I've equipped them. The speed and initiative penalties seem too high for use of the first two.

Though I found a list of units that benefit for the first two:

Steam Armor: all humans; elves besides werewolf-elf and ents; Undead besides Vampire-bat and Bone Dragon; Orcs besides Ogre; Dwarves besides Giant; Demons besides Demon; and Barbarian, Berserk, Pirate, Sea Dog.

Drill: Archdemon, Barbarian, Berserk, Black Knight, Knight, Demoness, Dwarf, Ent, Ancient Ent, Swordsman, Guardsman, Peasant, Robber, Marauder, Horseman, Werewolf Elf, Miner, Giant, Goblin, Furious Goblin, Orc, Veteran Orc, Skeleton, Zombie, Decaying Zombie, Ghost, Cursed Ghost, Vampire, Ancient Vampire, Ogre, Shaman, Pirate, Sea Dog

PS: I found a tidbit on the forum that I didn't know of (maybe you guys already do): using the Tree of Life Sprout before delivering it to the Tree of Death gives a permanent +1 Int boost. I wonder how many other quest items have hidden bonuses like that? I know using Velisar's staff gives 1 Mind rune, but I haven't tried using all the quest items. The only other "hidden" boost I can think of is the +1 Int for using the right magic words on the Zombie Miller if you are a Warrior or Paladin.

[Vulture]

Originally Posted by Helios

On topic: since we've been talking about the benefits of the Poison Dagger and Isshara's Whip, what is your opinion of the Battle Axe (+20% damage to users of cold steel weapons)? I was going through the fan manual and saw it, which has never been in one of my games, and I hadn't heard of it on the forums before.

Plain simple. It's a weapon and it gives not a single point of Atk or ldr --> complete rubbish. Unless you use at least 4 cold steel melees, which I'd never even try to do you won't have that much fun with it. Of the units it works with I'd only ever use Demons and (Ancient) Vampires but since their purpose is to be in bat form and restore losses it won't work with them, either.

About the other items: yes, if you use heavy physical melee (which I never do) only and those have enough speed: knock yourself out. My playstyle heavily relies on speed, damage avoidance, tactics and stuff so they're usually out of the question. +X Atk to all units > % damage to a certain type.
The Silver Rapier is an option for Karador if your Atk is high.

So the ranking would be:
1. Rapier (situational
2. Armor (shit and limited to units)
3. Drill (utter crap because some of the best melees don't even use physical dmg... and you can use a +X Atk in this slot instead)

Unless you definitely plan on using certain unit types only and exclusively just because you have an item for it, Armor and Drill are sub-par imho. If you do and can somehow pull it off throughout the game: have fun. You should see some funny numbers but it would be way too much hassle for me to take care of 4 or even 5 melees that take damage (loss preservation etc), and having to not use my favorite ones.

[Helios]

Thanks. I had the same conclusions about the steam armor and drill the first time I played--the negatives outweigh the positives. Losing speed or initiative can be killer (speed less so if the units all have decent speed), but I think the loss of speed would cripple entire races, like the Dwarves--ironic since they make the junk. It does make more sense to prioritize on weapons that help every unit in the army, rather than only a few. I'm shocked to see the drill benefits a ranged unit: Goblins. I wouldn't have guessed that. An all Orc team might actually be able to use the drill.

The only way I'll end up using the battle axe is if I do indeed make it all the way through the list of different playthroughs to get to the masochistic (and maybe impossible) all melee human "Outcast" group, since they'd all benefit from it.

I guess my Atk hasn't ever been high enough for the Silver Rapier to appear to have a different effect than my +Atk weapons.

Thanks for the opinions.

[Madstrike]

Guys I know this is prolly not the right place to post this, but I got to haas, and been wondering on the army setup, I have so far: Knights/Ancient Vamps/Demons/EGD, and Ive been wondering what to get as the last unit. Haas stacks are: 3x BlackD, 2x EGD, 1x RedD, 1x Bone Dragons, 2x Giants, 1x Cyclops. So a lot of dragons, I got 2 dragon slayer swords and 1 rahhas shield.

I got Mirabella, so I could use the 2 dragon slayer swords, and 2 batons, so I was maybe thinking of using sea dogs (Atk=56 with her) as my last unit, but not sure on them since they have no resistances whatsoever and very low def. Was also wondering about Ghosts, I got lvl 3 Dark Commander, Im just not sure about they getting out of control os maybe they are not tough enough? Other choices are Shamans(archmage is at lvl 3, so good ldr/dmg/hp ratio), Horsemen, or any other thing u guys could come up with, except regular vampires are not available.

Dark Commander lvl 3, Onslaught lvl 3, tolerance lvl2, lvl 29, 22.6k ldr, my timeback is pretty poor though(rest 4, lvl1-5), stats are: 20 atk, 24 def, 17 int. Any ideas?

ps:im having problems getting no losses because I always end up with giants in the end, who keep earthquaking and damaging my troops so I cant ress my troops before they start earthquaking, Im thinking of maybe going with black dragons and shamans instead of something there so I can easy up on the ressurection count( but the lvl 4/3 units are the most damaging so its hard to take them out, dunno what to do rly). What I do is cast battle cry, then dragon slayer, after that I cast some dispels, res, heal(EGD), my timeback is rly not a reliable source since it has that rest 4 delay(emergencies only)... I was even thinking of using inquisitors(wonder if they will be picked on xD, maybe use that with timeback?) for mana generating purposes, then keep the last cyclop busy with a totem or a demon summon? The sea dogs are rly good, but they have some shitty defense and die like flies, wish their special would work like with the knights, they would take out 2 stacks in the first turn.