In their own words...

[KAV]

Keep em coming Bobby, this is great read.....

[bobbysocks]

been busy with other stuff but will dig some more up soon... but here's something i fell upon. i have vivid memories as a child watching the movie about the bismark.....especially when the HMS Hood and all the brave men went down. but talk about a david vs goliath moment this was it...

Bismarck bombing pilot recalls attack - Jock Moffat took part in the bombing of the Bismarck

It is 70 years since the sinking of the German warship the Bismarck.

The last surviving member of the air attack has been remembering his role on a visit to his old squadron at RNAS Culdrose in west Cornwall.

Jock Moffat, 92, from Dunkeld, is believed to have fired the torpedo that hit the Bismarck's rudder, affecting its steering.

The order came from Winston Churchill to destroy the ship, after it had sunk HMS Hood three days earlier.

Mr Moffat, who was born and grew up in the Scottish Borders, is the last surviving member of the air attack, carried out by 820 Squadron, the oldest in the Navy.

The night before the Bismarck's sinking, a plane from Naval Air Squadrons based on HMS Ark Royal launched a torpedo that hit the Bismarck's rudder.

This action made it possible for the British ships and planes to inflict damage on the heavily-armoured Bismarck.

Remembering his orders while he was in the air, Mr Moffat said: "All of a sudden they said to let her go. I pressed the necessary and my torpedo left my aircraft.

"I can't honestly turn around and say I changed it. But I would like to think I did. They decided it was my torpedo that managed to hit it."

Hundreds were killed on both sides during the sinking of HMS Hood and the German ship.

[bobbysocks]

impressions of the 109 from both sides....

“Renowned test pilot Capt Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown, who has the unique distinction of having flown every major combat aircraft of WW2, was one of the first Allied pilots to get his hands on the Bf109. He recalls: ‘The Bf109 had two problems in combat. It had a very claustrophobic cockpit and was very tight and narrow. As a fighter pilot, you behave like a falcon swinging your head side-to-side in search of prey and particularly trying to look behind. And the rear view of the 109 was very poor. When we knew about that we took advantage of it with close in middle of the tail shooting. The Germans never knew what hit them. I calculate over 60 percent of our kills happened this way. Also, if you increased speed in the Spitfire and Hurricane, you could ease the rudder and trimmer. The 109 had no rudder trim. So the pilot was continuously working against the rudder to catch up speed, and you are bound to make slight mistakes and ruin your sighting. I saw many examples of this. The 109 had an offset to the right gun sight. One of the reasons for this is the plane seemed to always pull to the left as soon as you fired. They seemed to think this then moved the gun sight onto the target as it jerked over. Our tests showed the nose cannon mainly caused this. Our pilots saw numerous times when the 109’s missed an easy target because they were constantly fighting the rudder and missing aim. You couldn’t be an average shot in the 109 you had to be virtually so close a burst would hit something. Another problem that the 109 had was that it could not follow in a steep turn when using lots of power. If so, it would get into your slipstream, and he has these slats on the wings of his aircraft, these would tend to come out and snatch as the airspeed varies. And in these turns when the slats open and close unevenly, a rocking motion develops that ruins your shooting in addition to the nose jerking about. Another tip we learned is to dive as fast as you can. The Spitfire and Hurricane had a very effective elevator and could pull out of a dive. At 400mph, the elevators of a 109 locked solid and the plane would hurtle into the ground. I can’t count the number of German pilots I saw this happen to. So this was a good manoeuvre against the 109 we used very effectively. On the ground, taking off and taxing it was an unstable beast. Huge motor, in a long nose balanced on two ping pong balls, ridiculous design that cost the Krauts many pilots.”

“Once it was in the air is was very manoeuvrable but unforgiving. We learnt quickly and tried to teach new pilots never follow a Spitfire or Hurricane down in a dive, if the slats lock in their slipstream you’ll most likely die and be unable to pull up. It speeded up very fast, if you dived a little but you must work the rudder all the time. They did this to get away, we’d dive at them, they’d dive for the ground, you had half a second to get a shot off. Often we’d be circling high; they’d be circling low beneath us, trying to bait us to dive down. Over France our side had the advantage and waited till their fuel got short. During the Channel battle they had the advantage because the 109’s had only 15 minutes of combat fuel. Extra fuel tanks were unheard of and experimental. You had to get right on your target. It didn’t aim well because with speed the wing slats opened and threw off your aim. Also the big nose cannon pushed it to the left. I waited till my target filled the windscreen; you had maybe a second or two of firing then pull up or roll away. Many pilots died crashing into their targets too focused on firing. You could pull out of a spin but you worked at it. The major problem occurred during take-off. It had a strong engine, and a small, narrow-track undercarriage. If you took off too fast it would turn [roll] ninety degrees. The Russians would catch us on the ground taking off. You’d couldn’t speed up or go over. They hit us many times like this; this is why we staggered the planes over the place so if one went over the others could get up. We lost so many pilots in takeoffs. I lost 4 in one day – one very experienced, in the whole war it was the only time I felt like weeping.”
In 1941 aged 19, Erich Hartman joined the Luftwaffe being posted to the Eastern Front where he quickly claimed increasing number of victories. Proud of the fact he never lost a wingman he claimed 352 aerial kills. At wars end, Hartmann was deported to Siberia where he was sentenced to 50 years hard labour. Released in 1955, he joined the newly-established West German Luftwaffe. He died in 1993.

for more on the 109 ..comments and facts go to:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

[bezshumniy]

this isnt a good subject but story itself is remarkable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Br...-air_collision

[olife]

Originally Posted by bezshumniy

this isnt a good subject but story itself is remarkable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Br...-air_collision

my god!!!!!waoooo!!it what i call THE CHANCE!!!!
nice post my friend ,thx to share!!

[Gilly]

Originally Posted by bezshumniy

this isnt a good subject but story itself is remarkable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Br...-air_collision

That's proper mental! Jesus they had balls back then.

[bobbysocks]

that's some damn good flying! hats off to that man.

[bobbysocks]

Bridge Farm, Bradfield in the heart of rural north Norfolk, was the home of William and Matilda Gibbons, and their son Jack. Farming was pretty tough in the thirties and forties, no cars, tractors or combine harvesters; no telephone or electricity in the house.

October 8th 1943 had been just another day, and as is the habit of the farming community, they retired early. On the many RAF airfields across East Anglia it was a different story. Hundreds of airmen were preparing for take-off. Their bombers were fully laden with a deadly load of assorted bombs to be delivered to the heart of the Third Reich. That night the main force was to visit Hanover, with a diversionary force to head for Bremen.

The crew of Halifax HR777 TL-Y of 35 squadron, members of the crack Pathfinder Force based at RAF Graveley in Hunts., were to mark the target at Bremen. They took off at 22.46 hours and headed off to join the formation.

What happened after this is best described by Derrick Coleman, then a nineteen year old air bomber and radar operator.

‘.......... Ross Whitfield had gone to an Australian Squadron and his place as rear-gunner had been taken by a Canadian, Sgt.’Benny’ Bent. About 50 miles from the target I had left the H2S and moved into the nose of the Halifax in preparation for a visual bombing-run using the Mk XIV bombsite. There was no moon, no cloud and visibility was good in a bright starlight sky. I quote now from the official combat report which I obtained from the RAF Museum, Hendon.

‘... the rear gunner (Sgt Bent) saw a Ju 88 at 250yds on the fine port quarter slightly up and closing in fast. Sgt Bent told his Captain (Fg Off Muller) to ‘corkscrew port’. The E/A (enemy aircraft) opened fire at 200 yards with cannon firing a very dull trace, hitting the Halifax and setting the port outer engine on fire. The rear gunner returned the fire with two short bursts, aiming point blank and hitting the fighter, causing it to pull up sharply. The Halifax was now in a spin and the Ju 88 appeared to Sgt Bent to be hanging on it's props on the starboard beam. He gave it another very short burst, observing strikes and saw it fall away, apparently out of control.

By now the bomber was falling fast in a spin with flames pouring from the port outer engine. The pilot regained control after losing 8000 feet in height, but as the port outer engine was u/s and the port inner engine appeared to have been damaged, the aileron and elevator controls also damaged, besides the turret being u/s and other damage to the aircraft, the bombs were jettisoned and course set for base.’’

I was terrified during the spin as I was pinned to the floor of the bomb-aimer’s position, could not move and thought this was the end. Although the report states the bombs were jettisoned, I recall attempting a bombing run on a solitary searchlight which was seeking us. The searchlight went out! Max Muller did a magnificent job in getting the aircraft back to England, gradually losing height all the way and using full right rudder to keep the aircraft straight. My brief attempt to help by tying my inter-com lead round the rudder bar and pulling was very ineffective.

We crossed the English coast in daylight attempting to reach RAF Coltishall, but crashed a few miles short; just not enough power to hedge hop in. In the Halifax the bomb-aimer occupied the co-pilot’s position for take-off and landing. I recall quite vividly while in this position the ‘hedge hopping’ as the pilot struggled to keep the aircraft above ground. The aircraft passed between two trees which hit the wings. It was a complete write off; although the nose and part of the fuselage remained reasonably intact at least one of the engines had been torn away and was on fire. All the crew escaped injury except for Tommy Ellwood, the flight engineer who had taken up his crash position behind the main spar and sustained a bad cut over one eye which required stitching. There was a touch of humour at the end. Blazing petrol had, unknown to him, landed on the back of ‘Benny’ Bent’s flying clothing, but ‘Hoop’ Arnott, the mid- upper gunner had seen this happen so jumped on ‘Benny’ (who must have wondered what was happening) to roll him over, so putting the flames out. A rather nervous couple living in a nearby cottage (sic) initially thought we were Germans, but when they realised we were RAF we were invited inside and given cups of tea until transport arrived. Fl t Sgt Emery was the navigator, and Pilot Off ‘Mac’ Maskell the Wop. There was no doubt in the minds of all crew that we owed our lives to the amazing ability and strength of the pilot, Max Muller.''

In a written account of the same incident by the Flight Engineer, Tom Ellwood, given to Max Muller’s son, Derrick’s recollections are confirmed. It includes the following extracts:

‘ ...........by this time the Halifax was also in a dive and I was knocked off my feet. As I fell I struck my head on the main spar, cutting my face badly but found I was unable to get up because the ‘G’ forces were so great. The Halifax was obviously spinning out of control. To my great relief the plane eventually came out of it's spin. I found Max grimly but firmly in control of a very damaged Halifax. He alone had used his great physical strength to pull that plane out!’

‘....the turret and hydraulic system was damaged, and petrol had been lost from two or three tanks .........the bomb door ...refused to close, adding drag.’ ‘ Max asked us all for our views and opinions on the unpleasant alternatives facing us - bale out now and risk being a POW, fly on and risk a possible ditching/drowning in the North Sea or try and limp home. After a brief discussion it was decided to fly on..........’

‘Our ‘Mayday’ was picked up as we approached our coast and we were directed to Coltishall. The dim lights from the airfield were a welcome sight...the port wheel failed to lock......By this time we were flying on one engine.........The Halifax came down with a heavy jolt, it wavered and crashed finally grinding to a halt. It seems we had hit a tree which, fortuitously, had slewed us around and diverted our progress away from a farm house......eagerly scrambled out as the Halifax was now on fire, to be confronted by two figures behind a wall who were relieved when they realised that we were not Germans.’

‘They helped us back to their farm and provided us with strong hot tea and sandwiches. Never had a cup of tea tasted so wonderful, nor has the feeling of being amongst friends felt so good, as we all sat in the warmth of that farm house.’

[bobbysocks]

Bill Overstreet 357 FG

Not long after this, I had a freak accident. I think it was a mission to southern France. While over enemy territory, a burst of flak cut my oxygen line. Since I was at about 25,000 feet, I soon passed out. The next thing I knew, I was in a spin, engine dead since the fuel tank it was set on was dry. Somehow, I recovered from the spin, changed fuel setting, got the engine started, and dodged the trees that were in front of me. Then, I looked at my watch. Ninety minutes were not in my memory. I had no idea where I was, but remembered where I had been headed so I reversed it. I was able to find the coast of France and headed for Leiston. By this time, I was low on fuel, so I landed at the Fourth Group base. The officer I talked with was Captain Mead, who had lived a couple of blocks from my home in Clifton Forge, Virginia. To top it off, the mechanic who repaired my plane was “Hot Cha” Tucker, a former schoolmate, also from Clifton Forge. I still have a picture of Tucker and me with a P-47. Many weeks later, this story got a lot of publicity – Lowell Thomas on radio, newspapers and TIME magazine. So, that is my claim to fame. I hope I did a little bit that was productive.

During this period, I was flying more with Andy Anderson, while Peters and Pascoe were flying more with Jim Browning. My crew chief was “Red” Dodsworth with “Whitey” McKain as his assistant. Whitey was soon promoted. Whitey and I became good friends in spite of one incident. One snowy day, the visibility was so limited that Whitey was riding my wing to the runway. At the runway, I motioned Whitey to get off, but he thought I wanted him to come to the cockpit. I was watching Andy and he gave it the gun to take off, so I did the same. Poor Whitey was blown off the wing, but was wrapped up so well he wasn’t hurt. I was very glad of that. I never knew of this until, many years later. Whitey was riding with me and told me he had promised himself never to ride with me again. He did ride with me to Oshkosh several times and we had a ball.

Another mission that didn’t turn out as expected was one when I had a sinus infection. When we chased the German fighters out of position to attack the bombers, if most of them had dived away from us, we would sometimes chase them down. This time, I was chasing a 109 in a power dive from about 30,000 feet. Suddenly, my eyes were swollen shut. I was able to keep flying by feel (the pressure on the controls). I called for help and “Daddy Rabbit” Peters said he could see me. He got on my wing, took me back to the base and talked me through a straight-in approach and landing. It was days before doctors could relieve the pressure, and I could see again.

On April 11, 1944, I was flying with Andy, Kayser and Simpson. While we were escorting the bombers, a large group of 109s started to attack the bombers head-on. Andy led us into the fight, trying to break up their formation and keep them from getting to the bombers. Maybe they didn’t like being shot at, but they scattered all over. When most of them had dived away, Andy led us down after three 109s. At about 5,000 feet, Kayser got in position and clobbered one of them. It broke apart and Kay had to dodge the debris. At about 3,500 feet, Simpson closed on another 109 and got two good bursts to the nose section. He rolled over and went straight in. I was busy with another 109 who tried to get behind Simpson. Andy was turning with another 109 in a tight turn. Andy couldn’t hold a lead inside his turn, so he reversed his turn and came in almost head-on. As the 109 broke apart, the pilot bailed out. That took care of the 109s, but Andy spotted a HE111K flying close to the ground. Andy hit him good but directed all of us to make a pass. We all got hits and Andy came back, hitting it from nose to tail. The HE111K tried to crash-land, hit a pole tearing off the left wing, then started burning. As it slid along, the crew jumped out and I believe they were all track stars. They were in a hurry. Andy insisted on sharing the claim, although he easily could have claimed it. He would rather give us some experience and training.

During May, 1944, Colonel Graham ordered side arms to be carried at all times. There was an alert about German paratroopers. On May 12, I destroyed a JU52 on the ground. Andy got another 109 in the air. With Pierce and Michaely, we also destroyed a locomotive, rail cars and some barges.

D-Day through October, 31, 1944

June 6 was the invasion. We took off about 2 a.m. in horrible weather. We had to climb about 20,000 feet to get out of the overcast. It was beautiful when I got on top. The moon was bright, and as planes would break out of the overcast, they were in different attitudes from the long climb on instruments. We never did find our assigned flights, just formed up in flights of four. We went to France to make sure that no German fighters could bother the invasion, and to prevent reinforcements from being brought up. After six hours, we came back to the base for fuel. The Group flew eight missions on the day of the invasion. Smaller flights had different objectives.

The next day, Andy, Simpson, Skara and I strafed trains, trucks and military vehicles. On June 10, the Group claimed trains, rail shacks, boxcars, trucks, lorries and barges. June 29 was a good day. I got behind a FW190 and when I started getting hits, he flipped over and bailed out. I used only 40 rounds the whole day. General Kepner issued another commendation for the 357th and the 361st Groups. We destroyed 48 enemy aircraft without losing a single bomber.

On July 29, I chased a 109 to the deck and had a wing in the grass when he blew up. He must have been trying to get to his base because we were close to a German airfield. My wingman, Harold Hand, and I made a pass and destroyed another 109 and damaged a DO217. I went back and got another 109 but I found that I was alone. I asked Hand where he was and he replied, “I am giving you top cover.” Smart fellow.

On August 6, we started on our shuttle mission. I was leading a flight with Cleland, Pearson and Fennel. Jack Cleland was a New Zealand RAF pilot who had flown two tours in Spitfires and came to us to get some experience in longer missions. On his two tours in Spitfires, no mission had exceeded two hours. What a mixed flight – Cleland and Pearson. Pearson was an American who had gone to Canada, joined the RCAF, then transferred to the USAAF and the 357th. About 7 hours later and after several dogfights on the way, we landed on a grass field in Russia.

The 357th had sent some mechanics as gunners on the bombers so they could service our planes. The trouble was, the bombers landed at a different field and the mechanics never got to our P-51s. The Russian crews put the wrong octane fuel in some of our P-51s and caused a lot of trouble. I was assigned a cot in a tent that came complete with a blacksnake in the cot. When I saw a P-39 on the field, I asked if I could fly it since I had a lot of time in P-39s. Not a chance. They wouldn’t let me get within a hundred feet of it.

We had one escort mission out of Russia. This gave enough time in Russia to find some beet vodka. We thought it was better than potato vodka and decided we should take some along with us. I offered to leave my ammunition behind to make space for the vodka. That was fine until we ran into some 109s on our way to Italy. Naturally, we went after them, but they ran away. However, we got close to the last one and he rolled over and bailed out. Since I was the closest plane, I could have claimed another 109, but I did not want to claim the only enemy plane destroyed with vodka! Now all I had to worry about was to make a smooth landing in Italy to safeguard my precious cargo. Our mission from Italy was a real thrill. We escorted C-47s to Yugoslavia to pick up downed airmen collected by Tito and brought to a small airfield. The C-47s took turns landing and picking up a load of men, then taking off. The amazing sight was as the fellows jumped into the C-47, they were throwing out their shoes, clothing, etc., for their rescuers. I guess everything was in short supply, and our airmen wanted to help those who had helped them. All that was left of the shuttle mission was the return to England. That took about 8 hours. How do you think Cleland, whose earlier missions had not exceeded two hours, felt by then?

I remember many exciting missions. On one, a 109 blew up when I was too close. Pieces of the 109 came into my cockpit and landed in my lap. I still have that piece of extremely light and strong metal. On another, I saw a 109, in a shallow dive after the pilot bailed out, crashing into the side of a factory. Then the engine itself came out the other side of the building, sliding down the street. On still another mission, a cannon shell came through the side of my canopy. It took the canopy, oxygen mask helmet, gave me a haircut, and a bad burn on my neck. Everyone knows you can’t hit a 90-degree shot very often, so I still wonder who the German was shooting at. At least I knew why my canopy was missing. Kit Carson lost his canopy on a mission and was angry with his crew chief until the crew chief took him over to the plane and showed him the bullet holes that caused the canopy to leave. Kit didn’t know until then that he had been hit.

On September 3, 1944, Ed Hiro and I went to a base where they had a B-24 stripped down but loaded with explosives. A pilot had to take off, then bail out when the radio control from the “Mother Ship” took over. By radio control, the bomber was flown in the sub pens and blown up. The sub pens were under heavy rock formations that had resisted bombing from the air. But when the explosion was inside, under the rock cover, significant damage was achieved. Our job was to make sure no enemy planes bothered the mission. My mission log for this day is marked “SECRET.”

This is when the OSS asked me to fly for them. They were already operating almost a regular airline to the Free French behind enemy lines. We picked up airmen downed behind enemy lines, collected intelligence, and provided supplies to the Free French. Soon I was grounded again, and ordered back to the States. What a Halloween present for my family!

[McQ59]

Originally Posted by bezshumniy

this isnt a good subject but story itself is remarkable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1940_Br...-air_collision

I bow my head. Deap. A real risk to take to save a few pounds.