Campaigns as Axis?

[reverend66]

This game & other flight sims are not about the holocaust. All but a handfull of Germans had no idea of Hiltler's sick ideals until after the war. They clung to any leader that would take them out of the depression they were left with after WWI. As Anton stated in an earlier post pilots were knights (especially early in the war). In fact if a pilot crippled anothers plane in a battle they would often let them go (even fly next to them & salute).
I used to fly for the german (not Nazi) side in computer flight sims. Without opposing sides a "game" is just a shooting gallery. I have family that fought in WWII and hold no ill toward thier one time enemy only toward war itself. You can not really believe that every german soldier had no concious & was out to exterminate a race (many of whom they were related). When people are drowning they will cling to anything. Just try and go to Germany & wear a swastika, they wont arrest you because of pride lost, they will take you away because of shame. Shame for what thier country is remembered for yet the regular people/soldiers knew nothing about.

[haitch40]

hitler was evil but the german people gave him a chance because the economy was so bad i mean before hitler 1 loaf of bread cost a wheelbarrow of money so every1 saw him as a way out not because every1 was sick and wanted to kill jews
(btw i dont support hitler i support a democracy and people's wellbeing)

[dandymountfarto]

throughout history, every nation has committed crimes against humanity - no exceptions. its not just nazi germany that is guilty.

think of north and south america before the europeans arrived, but thats ok becuase the native people wrent god fearing christians, to the extent that it was ok to be a native just as long as you stayed put on your little "reserve" as a museum exhibit for all the "developed" people to point and stare at.

slavery was rife under the British Empire - and how did Britain acquire their empire? it wasnt by asking for it nicely - and anyone who opposed was villified by historians in the name of patriotism. how is that any different from nazi germany? or stalinist russia?

noone on this forum is condoning or supporting the atrocities of the second world war, but just dont think it was only the axis forces that were reponsible for "evil" deeds.

anyway i feel this topic has gone way to deep for a forum about a flight sim. as an aircraft enthusiast, its a shame not more examples of axis machinery survive, particularly airworthy ones. i would love to see fw-190's and bf110's flying alongside mustangs, spitfires etc they were machines built for a purpose, regardless of political alignment.

[haitch40]

yeh the english comited tons of war crimes (im english ) and yes id love to see japanese aircraft on desplay in museums (there is a museum somewhere in the us that shows the last serviving J7W Shinden prototype which is 1 of my favourite aircraft) and german aircraft
btw i have a german friend on psn and he isnt some nazi suporter or anything no sane person is.

[wannabetheace]

Originally Posted by David603

Jeez, we aren't talking about a campaign where you directly helped Nazi's to kill Jews. What we are talking about is a set of missions as a German pilot. All the older PC Il2s have campaigns where you can play as Axis pilots.

Besides, you want to know which nation that you can play in campaign is guilty of worse war crimes than the Germans? Thats right, the Russians.

No u are big wrong,
US made the most evils than Russians,
Look, US bombers bombed and killed more civillians that Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined in German cities,
They are just civillians, and US now justifies thier bloody murder or holocaust.

[loopdreams]

I think there's something inherently quite respectful about a game like this which places some emphasis on realism. Sturmovik should cause no offence to any sane person were it to allow players to fight on either side.

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by wannabetheace

No u are big wrong,
US made the most evils than Russians,
Look, US bombers bombed and killed more civillians that Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined in German cities,
They are just civillians, and US now justifies thier bloody murder or holocaust.

actually those bombings were completely justified

If we had not bombed japan into submission millions of japanese people would have died

over a million US dead was a estimate

You see the japanese at the time believed that surrender would bring shame upon themselves and their families. They were being trained to defend every inch of japanese soil with at most sharp bamboo pikes and rocks. Children had drills at school to kill american soldiers. And women were told that GI's would rape and murder them on sight.

While we did kill alot of people in the bombings, it averted what could have possibly been the most horrific battle in human history and we saved more lives then we took.

just look at okinawa for example

[loopdreams]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

actually those bombings were completely justified

If we had not bombed japan into submission millions of japanese people would have died

I don't think historians are quite so unanimous about that. Many argue that Japan was already at the point of surrender and in any case did the US really have to choose such highly populated civilian areas to demonstrate the overwhelming might of their new weapon?

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by loopdreams

I don't think historians are quite so unanimous about that. Many argue that Japan was already at the point of surrender and in any case did the US really have to choose such highly populated civilian areas to demonstrate the overwhelming might of their new weapon?

no , we had to bomb them twice with nuclear weapons before they surrendered

And we bombed military targets , it just so happened that they were in cities

[P-51]

Yup unfortunately the american guy is wright... They attacked military places! (Im british)