P-51 Combat Tips and Tricks ( Dogfight Guide )

[JtD]

In real life the P-51 was an excellent aircraft, just like it is in game. When the P-51 was introduced in the first half of 1944, the Luftwaffes top fighters were 1.42 ata Fw 190A and none methanol Bf 109G, mostly equipped with gunpuds. This meant the P-51 had many performance advantages, in particular at high altitudes, where it could fly circles around the German opposition, but also at lower altitudes where it still had climb, dive and speed advantages. And, compared to previous US escort fighters, it manoeuvred well, being competitive with whatever the Luftwaffe had.

Early on, the bomber escorts rarely had a numerical advantage, often the Luftwaffe had it and the P-51 was still successful under these conditions.

However, the tactical situation needs to be taken into account and here it is important that the escort fighters often held the initiative, because the Luftwaffe fighters focussed on the bombers. That's far more important than any numerical odds and something the P-51 did benefit from.

To reduce the combat success of the aircraft to numbers and relative pilot skills, is very superficial, to say the least.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by JtD

In real life the P-51 was an excellent aircraft, just like it is in game.

In fairness to the P-51 we're also forgetting one of its major strengths - range. The fact that the P-51 could escort bombers to and from targets deep in central Europe from bases in England or Southern Italy was unprecedented and the Germans had no comparable long-ranged fighter.

In the Pacific, while some Japanese fighters had better range than the Mustang, they didn't have the same armor.

My earlier point wasn't to dismiss the P-51 as a great fighter plane. It certainly was! But, the Luftwaffe of 1944 wasn't the Luftwaffe of 1940 or even 1942, which made it even easier for the VVS and the USAAF to gain air superiority over Germany.

[pandacat]

Thor is by far one of the best pony drivers I have ever known along with Kling, who I believe has quit the game long time ago. I also have really enjoyed your video, cheers! I also believe p51 is one of the best in the game even though I don't know how realistically the FM of a real Stang is being portraited here. There has been a long history of debate on this subject on many forums and I don't want get into that here. But in my gut feeling, its FM probably is not on par with that of Accusim one or DCS one, being a game 10yrs + old. What is really lacking for Mustang in this game is its armement. 6 50's in this game is really a peashooter. As a matter of fact I don't c any difference between 4 50's and 6 50's or even between 6 50's and 4 30's. I have seen many WWII gun cams where 190's and 109s got shredded by 50's, but you don't c that much here in the game.

For those veteran pony drivers in this game, would someone be kind enough to disclose a bit tricks on how to properly trim this aircraft? Is it as long as the ball is center then you are perfectly trimmed? Also some tips on how to use Pro Pitch. I know someone will tell me there are Kling's videos, but those are 5yrs old now and the game has been patched so many time since. Are those tips still valid?

[Janosch]

Originally Posted by pandacat

6 50's in this game is really a peashooter.

No, no, no it isn't.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Thor is by far one of the best pony drivers I have ever known along with Kling, who I believe has quit the game long time ago. I also have really enjoyed your video, cheers! I also believe p51 is one of the best in the game even though I don't know how realistically the FM of a real Stang is being portraited here. There has been a long history of debate on this subject on many forums and I don't want get into that here. But in my gut feeling, its FM probably is not on par with that of Accusim one or DCS one, being a game 10yrs + old. What is really lacking for Mustang in this game is its armement. 6 50's in this game is really a peashooter. As a matter of fact I don't c any difference between 4 50's and 6 50's or even between 6 50's and 4 30's. I have seen many WWII gun cams where 190's and 109s got shredded by 50's, but you don't c that much here in the game.

For those veteran pony drivers in this game, would someone be kind enough to disclose a bit tricks on how to properly trim this aircraft? Is it as long as the ball is center then you are perfectly trimmed? Also some tips on how to use Pro Pitch. I know someone will tell me there are Kling's videos, but those are 5yrs old now and the game has been patched so many time since. Are those tips still valid?

Thanks for the kind words. I did enjoy making that video a lot.

6x50s are more than enough if you know how to discipline yourself and fire at the right distance / set convergence. I think I demonstrated that very nicely in my video. And that was even before we got more API rounds in the belt.

Few tips, as requested:

• When pulling deflection shots, add a little more deflection than you think is needed - .50 are a bit slower, especially if you are used to german MGs.
• Trim the nose down, I personally used 14 clicks (on keyboard) after resetting to zero first. I flew with this setting all the time. This alone will make it a much more stable firing platform.
• Trim the rudder for different speeds, in particular for level flight and when diving. For me, this varied from 2 clicks when doing +800 km/h to 8-10 clicks for level flight. Do it even when zoom climbing.
• Fly with closed radiator and do not use WEP (over 100% power) below 3000m as it serves no purpose. *
• Learn to use your gunsight. My ideal convergence (in the video) was 200m.
• Some people recommend adjusting axes for elevators in order not to break the wings so easily if you are not careful. Both Kling and I used 100 on all axes for faster response when firing.

* I didn't even took it to skies with this new overheating FM. Needs checking.

Looking back now few years later, I came to conclusion that my perfectionism and diligence, especially with trimming for every speed and maneuver helped a lot with achieving those victories in a Mustang. I did have evenings when nothing seemed to work and I got damaged or shot down by insanely lucky maneuvers or as result of my stupid mistakes. But those were fewer than what I experienced and showed in the video.

As far as Mustang being an excellent fighter - you really need to clean up your mind of all the stuff you heard / saw at History channel. For escort duties and long ranges, where you need the speed and do not wish to lose time by dogfighting P-51 was and still is an ideal plane. You will soon learn to appreciate the possibility of disengaging when you are outnumbered. And extending away to gain altitude for another strike.


EDIT: Superseded by post #42.

[T}{OR]

Since the original link is long dead now, I am copying this over from BFs forums.

First of all, let's talk about the instruments.
Besides the Pitot and static instruments, we shall focus on the engine section.
In order of importance we have:

1. Manifold Pressure
2. Tachometer
3. Carb. Air Temp
4. Coolant temp.
5. The multi-function engine gauge

The various models have these gauges in different locations, but a zoom in will reveal their location on the panel.
For ME, the most important gauges are Manifold pressure and Propeller RPM/Governor RPM. Without a proper setting on either, you are wasting E and fuel.

Right up front I must explain the psychological aspect of airspeed.
Most of us want top speed RIGHT NOW. If you fall into this category, you might consider moving along to a different aircraft.
The P-51 accelerates well from zero to about 200MPH in most flight regimes. Try to take him over that in a hurry will reward you with a hot engine and perhaps death. Since the acceleration is so gradual in the Pony, most consider him to be a DOG in the sky. I suppose he is compared to the HotRods like the Spit, 109, LA5 etc. The huge difference is that the P51 is a high wing-loaded fighter that is slippery as hell at high speeds. When you get him up to high speed, he holds E very well unless you abuse him.
Having said all this, let's get to the meat of the matter.

I suggest you take a test hop in a P-51D-20NA to start off with. I suggest 100% fuel with no droptanks. Take off at 100% power (WEP) is useless on the deck).
As soon as you clean up (Raise gear and flaps) adjust rudder and elevator trim for straight and level flight. Adjust the throttle to 50" Manifold Pressure (There is a handy red line on the gauge) and set the RPM to 2700. (Top end of the green band)
Adjust your elevator trim for 1500 feet per minute rate of climb and keep the 'Ball' on the turn/bank indicator in the center. The moment the airspeed picks up, you will notice a pitch-up of the nose as well as a skid/slip opposite of torque. Keep fiddling with the two trims to maintain the 1500' FPM climb.
As you pass through about 12,500' ASL, you will see the manifold pressure reading drop drastically. This is the automatic supercharger changing to High Blower. Since an abrupt change would cause detonation and destruction of the pistons, the supercharger wastegate is opened to keep the boost levels reasonable. If you add power, the gauge will climb, then pop back to a lower setting. This is normal. The trick is to be patient and let the aircraft climb up into it's most effective flight envelope. (Maxing out around 25,000ASL) Once you get up to around 15k, you will notice the manifold pressure climbing until you must reduce throttle or go into overboost. (More than 50" pressure)

Now, having flown up that high a few times, you can start to get a feel for the different 'Sweet Spots' the Mustang has.
To make the best use of the P51s abilities, you must understand that patience is critical. If you want to get up to 450MPH, you are going to have to earn it. Think of the Pony as a medium weight automobile with tons of horsepower, but little torque. You can accelerate well for a bit, but then the load is too much for the engine. To advance further, you must change gears (Prop RPM) and maintain a reasonable power setting. The trick is to level out, set power for 50" pressure, 2700 RPM prop and keep him straight. Over the period of about 3-5 minutes suddenly you are going 350MPH. You can roll the power back to 40" pressure at 2700RPM and watch the airplane accelerate even more. If you choose to pull some pitch, beware that the airspeed will drop quickly. the solution there is to bring prop pitch up gradually as you pull up, while adding power up to the redline. If you do this too soon, you waste a few 'Gears' in between.
If you find yourself running WEP with prop RPM over 2800 and not taking off or in a weeds turn fight, you are wasting power and fuel.
You will discover that 2700RPM is the sweet spot for the prop. To get this, you may need to have a 75% throttle at 18k, but 90 on the deck.
The way the 'Stang was designed was radically different from previous aircraft. The pilot selects the power setting and prop RPM, and the controls took care of the rest. If the pilot wants endurance, he chooses say 65% power and 2500RPM, which will take him from Bristol to Berlin and back with fuel left over. If he wants max performance, he chooses a power setting for 2700/50+" pressure and watches the carb air temp as well as coolant temp. Keeping the Pony too long with either level too high will actually slow him down to the point at which he is a BRICK in the sky.

^^
I used 90-95 PP on the deck.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by JG27_PapaFly

The poor one-pass-one-kill capability means most P51 drivers repeat their BnZ attack, and the poor power-to-weight ratio and relatively high wing loading means they bleed lots of E with each pass.

Only from being heavy on the stick and likely diving farther than they should.

A good attack for P-51 is yoyo or a rolling lag attack that lets you stay behind the target while getting occasional deflection shots. Line your wings up right and the near flat X spread will work for you.

There's an exercise you can try, it does apply to combat vs slower planes and slower pilots in faster planes. Fly in a tilted circle pattern, get the tilt up steep and let the circle get as big as it needs to be to keep speed loss down. You should reach amazing speeds along the bottom and get a feel for how much stick you can pull without creating excess drag. Up along the top, make sure you have speed to dodge shots and note how fast the nose can come around between maneuver speed and gravity assist.
The circle should get real big in a P-51. In tactic it's a matter of keeping a pursuer unable to follow and shoot at the same time. If he tries, you spiral up over him and pwn, pwn, pwn. If he runs, you run him down.
So he will keep trying to follow inside your circle and watch the timing to keep his nose able to cover him. And at the top of your circle when he is trailing up on his, spiral up just long enough for him to either circle at near stall below you or start on his way down and you have him.

You do the exercise while watching gauges and lower windshield. Make sure to keep the ball centered. Wide enough flat turn and you should be able to maintain 250mph and better. Add the vertical and it gets better.

[Snake]

MaxGunz, why don't you record a track with this exercise and post it here? I would be very curious to see this exercise performed by yourself!

[K_Freddie]

The challenge is on..

[K_Freddie]

Actually I think MaxG is right here...

If the modelling is correct in DCS, I've been doing some P51-vs-P51 DFs and the AI here is a sheit to try and shoot down. He's doing exactly what MaxG is describing, and I'm forced to fly like this to keep up.. getting only occasional hits.. before my engine blows (I must still read the EM manual ).