Are tail-gunners bullet-proof?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Had to forward your question. The answer: Yes, splinters are calculated also for gunners. It is possible to kill a gunner by hitting a very different part of the plane with explosive shells.

If you play in arcade mode you can see this. Explosive shells and explosions create a "starburst" of secondary projectiles.

Regarding ESRB ratings, my U.S. version of IL2:1946 has a rating of "T" for "Teen"

Per the ESRB web site (http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp):

"Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language."

Other Ubisoft titles with Teen ratings are the Tom Clancy FPS series and Red Steel, all of which get a lot more "up close and personal" with the violence than the IL2 series.

The fact that IL2 is a combat sim automatically throws it into the Teen category. So, just showing slumped bodies isn't going to change the ESRB rating. All you need to do is remove, or minimize, the blood.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

The fact that IL2 is a combat sim automatically throws it into the Teen category. So, just showing slumped bodies isn't going to change the ESRB rating. All you need to do is remove, or minimize, the blood.

Thats dangerous thinking. Everything, that happen after such a step would be out of our control. And BTW: its not only U.S. to care about
There will be no change, period.

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Thats dangerous thinking. Everything, that happen after such a step would be out of our control. And BTW: its not only U.S. to care about
There will be no change, period.

Alright, but what about other ways to show disabled gunners that will not affect age ratings (see my earlier post)?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Well... it wouldn't be less unrealistic. IMHO the best solution is still, like it is now... because in RL, you probably won't be able to really see dead enemy gunners or pilots so often and so clearly, that you can tell, if he is really dead. So in most cases pilots in WW2 didn't realize, when they killed a man (except on chrashes without chutes), and then they often felt guilty anyway.

So what purpose would it have to be eager to display death in a noticable way?
Thats not, what we are onto: killing. Hm?

I personally had no problem with slump over gunner bodies... in the end, they just could be hiding.

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

So what purpose would it have to be eager to display death in a noticable way?
Thats not, what we are onto: killing. Hm?

That's definitely not the reason for my suggestions and as you can see I haven't demanded any effects that show that a gunner is actually killed, just some kind of visual indication that a gun position is no longer active.
It would he a big help for players when attacking bombers. At the moment it is impossible to tell if a gun position still poses a threat or if it is safe to attack a bomber from this direction - at least for me this annoying.

I think the basic idea is worth considering and I hope it is some food for thought for you DT guys.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

There is a small indicator - some small star-like yellow flash. I'm not 100% sure, but I think, it shows a hit to a pilot/gunner. Its not a sign of inactivity though.

At the moment it is impossible to tell if a gun position still poses a threat or if it is safe to attack a bomber from this direction

Do you think, this would be a realistic feature? To me it sounds arcade.

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Do you think, this would be a realistic feature? To me it sounds arcade.

At the moment I am unable to look in my books and I can't give you any quotes, but I remember reading combat reports were fighter pilots were clearly able to see when a gunner had been killed or a gun position was no longer occupied, so I wouldn't call it unrealistic.

It would be necessary to have diffent effects for different gun positions. Some examples:
For the gun positions on the fuselage sides of the He-111 or B-17, were the gunners were standing behind the guns, it would be enough to remove the gunners. For the gun positions on the upper side a shattered glass effect could be used. On planes like the Po-2, Sturmovik or Swordfish a destroyed machine gun could be shown or the guns barrels could just be lowered to one side.
Like in reality a player would have to be close to his target to see if a gun position is still active so these effects would be very realistic and not in any way arcade.

[Jack_Aubrey]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Now thats cool! Cooperating bomber jockeys are rare! Where can I find you flying? Online?

.... wow we use to fly together the wednesday, we use to fly at Spitsvs109 but not always, the easiest way look for our tags "E69".

[JtD]

If the gunner doesn't fire, he's dead. I've been using this indication for a long time and it fairly accurate.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Had to forward your question. The answer: Yes, splinters are calculated also for gunners. It is possible to kill a gunner by hitting a very different part of the plane with explosive shells.

Yes I have been killed by flak burst as a gunner in He111 and Ju88, the Ju88 is particularly fragile nose section regarding pilot deaths and gunners.

Originally Posted by JtD

If the gunner doesn't fire, he's dead. I've been using this indication for a long time and it fairly accurate.

Also if they run outta ammo.