66!

[JG53Frankyboy]

later perhaps, in some years...... replacement for their Su-30.
but now there is a competition for a "medium" Multirole Fighter, and the last ones are the Typhoon and the Rafale for that.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

So? What do you want, a new multi-role jet every 5 years? It was designed with longevity in mind. The F-18 is 25 years old, yet you don't hear a lot of people complaining about it (and let's not even look at the F-15 or F-16..).

We have F18. It's save to assume they are the best maintained F18 on the planet.
Yet, we still have only 50% availability.

has less stealth capabilities than an F-22 maybe, but it has a good stealth level.

For the this price and 2011?

is it? Compared to what exactly? Last time I checked an F-22 price tag it didn't come cheaper than an EF.

The F22 is not available for Export, the way it looks right now they end production next year.
Given the fact they don't sell it, there's no need to discuss it.

Yeah, too bad that thrust vectoring doesn't really serve much of a purpose, other than doing fancy manouvres at an airshow..

But outturnig a spit is an achievement?
I guess future Typhoon upgrades include the ability to outrun Mig 21s.

your conclusion is somehow despicable. And for the record, the US lost several "stealth" jets, most notably an F-117 over Serbia..

I only know of the F117 lost in combat.
Then again, it was shot down by an elite AAA unit.
It actually only proves the existence of the golden shot, nothing more, nothing less.

for once Switzerland could be good and give back some of the money they robbed over the last 100 years, so let's hope they buy them yes.

Actually I hope we buy the Grippen.
You get 2 of them for each eurofighter, double availability.
They are cheap to operate and idiotproof
Not EU
Not USA

In case we have to wait a few years maybe we should evaluate the Pak-Fa too, although they could be a bit oversized for this tiny country.

BTT:
What money? Stole from whom? Since 1911?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by swiss

We have F18. It's save to assume they are the best maintained F18 on the planet.
Yet, we still have only 50% availability.

Fleet availability is something that has little to do with how dependable an aircraft is. It might be down to maintenance routines, costs or other operational issues. Considering the know-how and experience of pilots and ground crews, I'd rather switch to the Super Hornet than change fleet completely.

For the this price and 2011?

The F22 is not available for Export, the way it looks right now they end production next year.
Given the fact they don't sell it, there's no need to discuss it.

And that's my point. The Eurofighter is the best multi-role jet money can buy at the moment. The F-22 wasn't sold cos THAT is a flop, and other than the technical snags, it's mainly cos the fleet maintenance costs the American taxpayers A LOT.

But outturnig a spit is an achievement?
I guess future Typhoon upgrades include the ability to outrun Mig 21s.

no, I didn't mean it in that way, I just find the manouverability of modern jets is outstanding, I'm sure an F-22 or a Su-27 could do as good.

I only know of the F117 lost in combat.
Then again, it was shot down by an elite AAA unit.
It actually only proves the existence of the golden shot, nothing more, nothing less.

no, they used extremely long wavelengths and spotted the F-117 when it opened the bomb bays. The plane was damaged by a proximity fuzed missile. This proves once again that when the American boast about new technologies, they do it too much and kill the surprise factor. AA units in Serbia were well aware of the existence of the stealth bomber, and used their skill and initiative shooting down a plane that had never been hit before.
Uh and for the record, the F-117 was retired in 2008 (in a somehow "stealth" fashion), to save one billion dollars for the F-22 program.. americans had been going in the wrong direction for quite some time now..

Actually I hope we buy the Grippen.
You get 2 of them for each eurofighter, double availability.
They are cheap to operate and idiotproof
Not EU
Not USA

yeah good luck with that, I'm sure the SAF is thrilled to get their Saabs..

In case we have to wait a few years maybe we should evaluate the Pak-Fa too, although they could be a bit oversized for this tiny country.

Yeah, another Russian gem considering the size of Swiss airspace you really need something that is manouverable

BTT:
What money? Stole from whom? Since 1911?

it was only a joke, I'm sure you're aware of the general impression the world has of Switzerland

[TomcatViP]

JG52Krupi said : India iirc are getting the Russian t-50

Humm I guess that you are one of those proud Russian or I might be wrong

Yeah it's (again) a fantastic and ingenious Sukhoi design. Proud Russians can be.

My point in naming it by its Indian/Russian (oh sry) ... Russian/Indian) project' name instead was to attract readers on the prob funny tech transfers.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

JG52Krupi said : India iirc are getting the Russian t-50

Humm I guess that you are one of those proud Russian or I might be wrong

Yeah it's (again) a fantastic and ingenious Sukhoi design. Proud Russians can be.

My point in naming it by its Indian/Russian (oh sry) ... Russian/Indian) project' name instead was to attract readers on the prob funny tech transfers.

Lmao what an earth are you on about I am British for a start!

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Lol

Poor effort at the best from him.

what, i agree with him, oddly enough.

i do however, disagree with

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

IMHO

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

later perhaps, in some years...... replacement for their Su-30.
but now there is a competition for a "medium" Multirole Fighter, and the last ones are the Typhoon and the Rafale for that.

Ah okay well typhoon should win hands down

[Kodoss]

Hmm, what I miss in this threat is the Chengdu J-10B to compare it with, let me say, half modern planes...

What also is an important factor is the cost over the lifetime of your A/C.
For an example: if you buy a normal passenger jet (A320 or B737, doesn't matter which one) you pay 7-times the same amount for maintenance the next 30 years.

So for the military etat it's good to have one fighter with superp multirole ability with long life cells,cheap/fast production, low maintenance costs and good upgrade abilities.

The low/complicated production rate, the high maintenance costs/repairs and the low adaptivity to other roles killed the F-22.

The F-35 is set as a multirole A/C, but has also a low and complicated production rate. If you think the EU had to much fingers, the US is not an exception to that. For the reduction of mainenance cost it has only one engine, but that doesn't save your pilots (see starfighter in germany).

The Eurofighter ( also called Jäger-90 ) was initially designed as an interceptor plane. With the change of the cold war, also the role of it changed over the time.
From interceptor to multirole. Maintenance costs, long life cells also played it's part in the older getting Air fleets in europe. That all rised the price, through political nonsense.

Russia builds the best aerodynamical A/C without assisting computers in the world, there's no doubt about it. Also they have a building set system to adapt new parts for new variants. But the maintenance costs and the fuel costs are a pain in the A...

If someone has some good info about the Rafale, J-10 or others, please share them.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Lmao what an earth are you on about I am British for a start!

Well sry but tell me you are a British that add lemon slide in it's tea pot to explain me why my cristal ball had failed ?

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Kodoss

If someone has some good info about the Rafale, J-10 or others, please share them.

you can start there : http://rafale.freeforums.org/