New Mod Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Babies!

[MattCaspermeyer]

Hey, by the way, as you know I've created this project to make your computer opponent harder, but I've also improved the AI's spell casting ability somewhat.

What I haven't done that just popped into my head as I've been playing tonight is about spell synergies.

What I mean by this, is what are some of your favorite spell combinations that you like to use (i.e. your 1-2-punch so speak)?

I haven't done this with the AI spell casting, but I could give the AI a 1-2-punch with respect to if they have a certain set of spells that compliment each other, I can increase the likihood of them casting those spells in tandem (i.e. one after the other).

So let me know your favorite spell synergies and I'll think about how to get them in the game (also this would probably be a good list to try to add to the Gremlin Tower's Extensible lists).

Thanks!

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

To go along with the previous post a little bit, what are some of your dislikes about the current AI that bother you a little bit?

These have to do with the AI's use of unit abilities and you'd basically like to see improved.

What I'm thinking here is that if I get a pretty good list I can work on improving that aspect of the game as well.

I find that currently the AI is pretty decent, but I'm sure we can make improvements.

Anyway, looking forward to your comments...

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

Okay, one last post before I go to bed.

What are some features that you'd like to see improved in the game.

One of the abilities that I'm thinking about is the fact that the AI can generate an optimal hex path for its use of the Black Dragon's Power of Fire, whereas the player cannot.

I'm not sure if I know how to do it, but I think I might be able to figure out how to allow the player to create a more complex or optimal path when using that ability.

So would people like to see improvements like this made?

If so let me know what it is and I'll see if I can figure out a way to do it...

/C\/C\

[Fatt_Shade]

Found couple simple misses :
1) dark commander in skills.txt on 3 lvl should be pars=+8,+2,+1 (you forgot to change from original +10,+1,+1)
2) in mega mage did you plan to add more att/def per lvlup of ksill ? since now you have +2/+3/+4 att/def for units on all lvl`s. or you planed to add something more for every lvl 1st lvl att/def , 2nd lvl att/def/hp/crit and on 3rd lvl att/def/hp/crit/initiative.
3) also in megamage there is bonus +Unitlevel, what did you mean by that ?

[MattCaspermeyer]

Great catch on Dark Commander, I've made the change and will provide it in the next update I send out - thanks!

Those are the type of finds that I need!

As far as Mega Mage is concerned (I use this a lot) +Unit Level means +Unit Level! So for example, Mega Maga says "Unit Attack / Defense: +Unit Level", then if it is a Priest, whose unit level is 2, then they will get Attack / Defense: +2; if it is a Necromancer then they get Attack / Defense: +4 since their unit level is 4. I use that as a short hand because it saves space.

As far as the Archmage (Mega Mage) level progressions, they get:

Level 1: Attack / Defense: +Unit Level, Health: +5%, and Leadership Requirement: -5%, while your Hero gets +1 Intellect.
Level 2: Attack / Defense: +Unit Level, Health: +10%, Critical Hit: +20%, and Leadership Requirement: -10%, while your Hero gets +2 Intellect.
Level 3: Attack / Defense: +Unit Level, Health: +15%, Critical Hit: +30%, Initiative and Morale (except Necromancers): +1, and Leadership Requirement: -15%, while your Hero gets +3 Intellect.

So I mimicked Iron Fist where the mages get boosts to some statistics and then with each successive level up they get boosts to more of their statistics, but some of the previous boosts don't change. Also here's a bit of the rationale to the rune values as well as a discussion of the level up differences:

Level 1: 0,1,2 - this gets your hero +1 Intellect and your mages a +Unit Level Attack / Defense bonus, +5% Health, and -5% Leadership Requirement. As far as the rune choice breakdowns, 1 magic rune gives +1 Intellect so then 1 mind rune + 1 magic rune give the remainder of the bonuses.
Level 2: 1,1,2 - this gets your hero another +1 to his Intellect and your mages another +5% Health and -5% Leadership Requirement. What's new is the boost to their Critical Hit: +20%. Once again, 1 magic rune gives +1 Intellect and then we have 1 of each rune that gives another 5% to Health and Leadership Requirement and then +20% to their Critical Hit.
Level 3: 1,1,2 - this gets your hero another +1 to his Intellect and your mages another +5% Health, -5% Leadership Requirement, and then another +10% to their Critical Hit (which is only a 50% increase from Level 2). Then they gain +1 Initiative and +1 Morale. Once again 1 magic rune gives +1 intellect so then we're spreading the remaining runes amongst a 50% increase in the critical hit bonus, 5% Health and Leadership Requirement, and then +1 Initiative and Morale.

Maybe that's a bit of a stretch, but if you look at the total rune cost to get to Level 3: 2,3,6, less 3 magic runes for +3 intellect: 2,3,3 you get:

Mages: Attack / Defense: +Unit Level, Health: +15%, Critical Hit: +30%, Initiative and Morale: +1, and Leadership Requirement: -15%.

That seems kind of fair for a very small set of units. That's another factor that is somewhat subjective when applying bonuses to a subset of the units is what does 1 rune do?

Also with respect to the progression of stat increases and which ones to choose first, there is a bit of subjectiveness to how important is initiative versus morale, speed, critical hit, health, attack, and defense. The prioritization of a unit's statistics is a bit difficult and depends on whether they are melee or ranged.

Here is a rough progression of a unit's statistics based on importance:

1. Morale - because it gives bonuses to attack, defense, and critical hit
2. Ranged - Initiative, Melee - Speed. For ranged, the sooner they move the better, for melee initiative doesn't help if you can't attack so speed is very important.
3. Critical Hit - hitting for twice the damage effectively doubles the size of the stack.
4. Health - more health is better no matter who you are.
5. Ranged - Speed, Melee - Initiative, Attack, Defense - this last batch of statistics are kind of a toss up and very subjective here. If you have lots of movement and are melee, then Initiative becomes much more important and probably should be a 3 as well as their Attack and Defense become a lot more important as well.

So you can see it is a bit tricky when deciding which statistic increase is most important, but since we're dealing with ranged units with the skill Archmage, you can see why I added Morale and Initiative at Level 3, Critical Hit at Level 2, and Attack / Defense and Health at Level 1.

I don't necessarily always follow this, but I'm at least mindful of this when I deviate from it.

As you think of changing the skills in AP/CW, try to come up with something like this (my ordering is my opinion so if you think differently then order the list how you see fit) to aid in helping make things more balanced.

What you're really trying to do in the end is to "mechanize" your strategies and what you think is important into your changes.

I hope that gives you a view into the thought process and the methodology of how I went about selecting which skills / statistics to increase as well as the associated bonus values and rune requirements.

/C\/C\

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Found couple simple misses :
1) dark commander in skills.txt on 3 lvl should be pars=+8,+2,+1 (you forgot to change from original +10,+1,+1)
2) in mega mage did you plan to add more att/def per lvlup of ksill ? since now you have +2/+3/+4 att/def for units on all lvl`s. or you planed to add something more for every lvl 1st lvl att/def , 2nd lvl att/def/hp/crit and on 3rd lvl att/def/hp/crit/initiative.
3) also in megamage there is bonus +Unitlevel, what did you mean by that ?

[Fatt_Shade]

4) in skills.txt for necromancy you listed skeleton/zombie/ghost per skill lvl, what does it do?
5) in xyz_babies.txt kid`s bonus
filter {
belligerent=ally
}
pbonus=defense,0,6,0,-100,0,0
dbonus=
rbonus=
attack_on=
attack_off=
Missing units for +6 def bonus, Or you planed to give 6 def with every kid ?.
And why setting sp_unit_lead_archer 2 times in kid`s bonuses ? Every kid which gives -lds for some unit have it listed 2 times in mods{}. Exp galthran(first kid) gives bonus for archer/skeleton -3% lds, and then again on bottom of list -26% lds. So how much does it lower unit leadership (does it stack) ? With zombie_rina and 4 kids, you can get -34lds% for all undead (for some units even more), and with necromancy skill this can go to -50%. A bit OP ? Why does every rina kid give lds for all undead?
6) kid_voy from feanora should place to mirabela, sea battle bonus seems logical.
kid_tazar holy s...t
kid_young_sandro wtf is he doing in feanora babies ???
7) diana babies
kid_ shiva why not make bonus to all draogns, instead mixing all units, and only EGD ?
kid_kalt/lacus did you plan to give 9% magic dmg, and 9% poison res? Why not same bonus. 9% magic dmg,res, and other kid 9%poison dmg/res
sp_power_inc=count,9 i guess this is bonus% for destruction skill
sp_power_mod=count,1 but what is this ???
8 ) xeona babies for kid_dace in the mods set sp_lead_unit_horseman/knight/orc2, you miss _ in those lines.
9) wives.txt for mirabela no need for human lvl 5 unit bonus. No human 5th lvl TL
10) maybe scale differently -lds% for wives, for 1st lvl units 15%, 2nd/13% , 3rd/11%, 4th/9% , 5th/7% , and why feanora have lowest lds reduction ? She give bonus for so few units, at least should be useful with them
11) you completely missed griffins in any wife lds reduction/stats bonus
And in the end rina is seriously overpowered, all her kids give lds for all undead. Change it so every kid, gives -lds% for some unit, not all race.
Xeona also with 4 kids all unis in your army could have +40% dmg bonus and +4fire dmg which is to much.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Interesting comments!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

4) in skills.txt for necromancy you listed skeleton/zombie/ghost per skill lvl, what does it do?

This is in the original game and I'm not even sure if the game actually uses it, but I left it alone when modding the skill.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

5) in xyz_babies.txt kid`s bonus
filter {
belligerent=ally
}
pbonus=defense,0,6,0,-100,0,0
dbonus=
rbonus=
attack_on=
attack_off=
Missing units for +6 def bonus, Or you planed to give 6 def with every kid ?.

Here's what this means - this is very important if you're going to mod the game.

filter {...} - this means that you can make this apply to the units specified by the filter. If you do not have anything here, then this will apply to every unit on the battlefield.

Valid values:
belligerent = ally or enemy to apply bonus to
race = human, orc, etc. to apply bonus to
level = value or level <= value, etc. level of units to apply bonus to
unit = list of unit(s) to apply bonus to

pbonus=... - use this for increasing unit statistics
dbonus=... - use this for increasing unit damage
rbonus=... - use this for increasing unit resistance
attack_on= - I have not used this, but I'm guessing that you can enable certain unit's attacks with this (I'll have to experiment with this)
attack_off= - I have not used this either, but I'm guessing that you can disable certain unit's attacks with this (this could be very powerful if an enemy hero can disable certain of your unit's abilities).

Note that there are 3 values after defense, then -100, and then two 0's. Here is the meaning of this (for any statistic):

pbonus, dbonus, rbonus = stat_name, absolute, percent_current, percent_base, duration, delete_on_damage, priority

Where:

stat_name =
pbonus = attack, defense, krit, health, initiative, moral (note that there is no "e" on the end of that), hitback, and speed.
dbonus and rbonus = astral, fire, magic, physical, poison
abosulte = if you place a value here, then it is added to (or subtracted from) that statistic directly.
percent_current = if you place a value here, then it scales the current value by that percent.
percent_base = if you place a value here, then is scales the base value by that percent.
duration = how long the effect lasts, -100 means that it lasts forever.
delete_on_damage = true / false, whether to remove the modifier when the unit dies.
priority = the priority of this effect.

Reference: Attack King's Bounty Library

So in the case above, that child will apply a very modest +6% (multiply defense by 1.06) to all of your unit's defense. For example a unit with defense = 50 will have a defense = 53. I think you can see that this is a very modest bonus.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

And why setting sp_unit_lead_archer 2 times in kid`s bonuses ? Every kid which gives -lds for some unit have it listed 2 times in mods{}. Exp galthran(first kid) gives bonus for archer/skeleton -3% lds, and then again on bottom of list -26% lds. So how much does it lower unit leadership (does it stack) ?

They do stack - the reason why they are listed twice is because Galthran has two separate skills that contribute to the Leadership Requirement - one applies to all Undead (which has to list each set of units separately for them to stack properly), the other just to Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Archers.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

4)With zombie_rina and 4 kids, you can get -34lds% for all undead (for some units even more), and with necromancy skill this can go to -50%. A bit OP ? Why does every rina kid give lds for all undead?

Rina's babies will only max out at -33% Leadership Requirement for the Undead and then Rina herself is another -6%

Nonetheless, I've been thinking long and hard about this and realized that there is a possibility of getting this although it is low. How low?

2/19 * 1/18 * 1/17 * 2/16 = 0.0043% so you'd have to play 23,256 times to get the best Leadership Reduction Requirement bonus to occur just once!

So this is pretty much a non-issue if you can get this game then enjoy the rarity!

By the way, here are the other probabilities:

2/19 * 1/18 = 0.292% or 1 in 342 games for best 2 of them.
2/19 * 1/18 * 1/17 = 0.00344% or 1 in 2,907 games for best 3 of them.
or
2/19 * 1/18 * 2/17 = 0.0688% or 1 in 1.454 games for close to best 3 of them.
but
2/19 * 1/18 * 3/17 = 0.103% or 1 in 969 games for somewhere between close to best 3 of them and best 3 of them.

Also, if you're wondering, the chance of getting -12% LR to Undead from Rina babies:

13/19 * 12/18 * 11/17 * 10/16 = 18.4% or about 1 in 6 games!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

6) kid_voy from feanora should place to mirabela, sea battle bonus seems logical.

I put a lot of thought into wife and baby choice. Think of the Frogus brothers. Feanora is the only wife with reptilian / amphibian blood in her so she gets all the HOMM3 Lizardmen and Troglodyte babies.

Mirabella is human and so she's only going to have human babies. I put a lot of thought into which wives have which babies and I tried to make the combinations somewhat plausible.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

kid_tazar holy s...t

Tazar has Expert Armorer and Feanora's wife value is 7 so 7 * 3 = +21% Defense to all units or times 1.21. Not +21 defense (absolute) to all units like you were thinking - that'd be absurd!

By the way if you see something like that let me know because it would be wrong!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

kid_young_sandro wtf is he doing in feanora babies ???

Well, to include Young Sandro in the game, I couldn't give him to Rina since she already had normal Sandro. I thought it would be neat to represent every HOMM3 Hero from the normal game to Armageddon's Blade and Shadow of Death. So 4 (okay really 5) heroes appear twice (Sandro, Haart, Gem, and Yog, but their pictures are different from the normal versions) so I didn't want to have the same baby with the same wife even though their picture was different. Young Sandro could have gone to any of the other wives, but I thought Feanora was a good candidate since she is in Marshan Swamp near the Cemetary. For Haart, since he turns into a Death Knight in HOMM3 Shadow of Death he went to Rina since she's miss Undead baby. Normal Haart is Mirabella's baby. Gem went to Diana (not much of stretch). Normal Gem is Neoka's. Young Yog is the only one kind of out of place - he's a genie (Diana has the genie babies including normal Yog) but is a Barbarian in HOMM3 with the Orc town, so I ended up giving him to Orcelyn even though he's blue-skinned because his bonuses were for Orcs. So maybe the stork picked up the wrong baby with Yog! Oh well! She says he's yours!

Oh yah, and I forgot about Dragon Mutare. Mutare is Gerda's baby, but for Dragon Mutare she's Xeona's! I guess you and a demoness can have a dragon baby!!! Why not? Or maybe the stork mixed up that one as well!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

7) diana babies
kid_ shiva why not make bonus to all draogns, instead mixing all units, and only EGD ?
kid_kalt/lacus did you plan to give 9% magic dmg, and 9% poison res? Why not same bonus. 9% magic dmg,res, and other kid 9%poison dmg/res

Mutare gives bonuses to all dragons since she becomes a Dragon in HOMM3! Shiva originally had Thunderbirds and Rocs in HOMM3. There was no equivalent unit in KB so I thought she would be good to give bonuses to EGD's (no HOMM3 Heroes give bonuses to Emerald Dragons in that game). Also, Rashka (Xeona) gives bonuses to Red Dragons (no Efreet in KB) and Kilgor (Orcelyn) (no Behemoths in KB) gives bonuses to Black Dragons.

Kalt and Lacus are PlanesWalkers in HOMM3. This wasn't too tough of a choice to decide which wife to give these heroes to because Kalt is an Ice Elemental and Lacus a Water Elemental and since Diana is a River Fairy it made sense. Both HOMM3 Heroes applied bonuses to Ice and Water Elementals. Unfortunately there are no Ice and Water Elementals in KB so I decided that they'd give bonuses to units with physical (ice) and magic (water) damage +9% and then also (water based) give resistances to physical (ice) and poison (water).

Why magic for damage and poison for resistance? Well normally I'd probably make it the same, but none of the units that Diana gives bonuses to normally have poison damage and so 0 * 1.09 = 0. So it would be useless, but Sprites, Unicorns, etc. do magic damage and so that's why.

So those are correct.

There are other PlanesWalkers as well and so the mother I picked makes sense for all those as well.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

sp_power_inc=count,9 i guess this is bonus% for destruction skill
sp_power_mod=count,1 but what is this ???

These are new bonuses that I added. These are a bit tricky with respect to balance and so we'll have to note if they are too high when playing.

The way they work is sp_power_inc is the power to add to the +10% to spell power for every 7 Intellect. So this bonus would give +19% - wow! Now the sp_power_mod is divided by two and subtracted from 7 so it would be 7-0.5=6.5. So that would be +19% to spell power for every 6.5 Intellect. That's a nice boost and babies with these stack.

Chance of getting the babies to max this out (one baby has Advanced Scholarship, the other 4 Basic)?

1/19 * 4/18 * 3/17 * 2/16 = 0.0258% or 1 out of 3,876 games to get max.
1/19 * 4/18 * 3/17 = 0.206% or 1 out of ~484 games to get the best 3 of them.
1/19 * 4/18 = 1.27% or 1 out of ~86 games to get the best 2 of them.

This is a bit borderline here with getting the best two of them. Something to consider...

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

8 ) xeona babies for kid_dace in the mods set sp_lead_unit_horseman/knight/orc2, you miss _ in those lines.

Awesome - great catch there! There may be more of these so keep your eyes open for them!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

9) wives.txt for mirabela no need for human lvl 5 unit bonus. No human 5th lvl TL

Right, but when I move to Crossworlds, I won't have to change it!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

10) maybe scale differently -lds% for wives, for 1st lvl units 15%, 2nd/13% , 3rd/11%, 4th/9% , 5th/7% , and why feanora have lowest lds reduction ? She give bonus for so few units, at least should be useful with them

You're wrong about Feanora's bonuses they are right between Rina's and Mirabella's / Gerda's individual unit Leadership Reduction bonuses.

Also note that there is more than simply Leadership Reduction bonuses - Feanora's kids have bonuses that apply to more areas.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

11) you completely missed griffins in any wife lds reduction/stats bonus

You missed both Mirabella and her son Edric. Griffins get a great bonus!

Every unit is represented with a child bonus somewhere - I was very sure about this since in the end I had a few duplicates and needed to come up with a unique bonus for babies that had similar unit bonuses to prevent too much stacking.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

And in the end rina is seriously overpowered, all her kids give lds for all undead. Change it so every kid, gives -lds% for some unit, not all race.

You're wrong about this - you're not considering probability once again and the way the wives and children were designed was to give bonuses to playing a certain set of units.

I encourage you to play it and let me know what you end up with in regards to the total Undead Leadership requirement reduction from Rina's Babies. I'm guessing you'll be somewhere between -12 to -18% and if you're fortunate, you'll get 1 child with a reduction to a couple of Undead units.

Look at Feanora's baby Korbac: -27% Leadership Requirements to Dragonflies (both Lake and Fire) and +7% Defense to all units. That's 1% better than Rina's Galthran Leadership Requirement to Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Archers and 1% better than his defense to all units. Also instead of -3 Leadership Requirements to Undead, Korbac adds +1 Initiative to all units. Which is better? -3% Leadership Requirement to Undead or +1 Initiative to all units? You'll see that Feanora's values are higher for every equivalent value of Rina's babies.

The areas I actually may need to look at are the Skill Leadership Reductions, because these have no probability - just get all the prerequisite skills and runes and you're good to go.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Xeona also with 4 kids all unis in your army could have +40% dmg bonus and +4fire dmg which is to much.

Probability of this happening: 4/27 * 3/26 * 2/25 * 1/24 = 0.005698% or once every ~17,550 games! Enjoy that game when it comes around!

Other probabilities:

2/27 * 1/26 * 2/25 = 0.0228% or 1 in ~4388 games
2/27 * 1/26 = 0.285% or 1 in ~351 games

By the way, the only way to know if something's overpowered is to try it out and see. As I was learning how to mod the game, I needed to shift my paradigm of thought from the original The Legend game because of how much harder I've made it. Looking at the values does not tell the complete story!

I've also perturbed the values both low and high when setting the values to get a good idea of whether something is too low or too high and have hit the sweet spot with most stuff since I've played it.

Probability is a huge player when determining whether the stacking bonuses can get out of hand and I encourage you to consider the probability for even getting two babies you'd like to get for a wife. The minimum probability of repitition for the wife with the fewest children having 2 children of your choice is a 1 in 342 chance!

Playing the game is the only way to find out for certain and I do think it is fun to have a game every now and then where you have the possibility of really good bonuses, but as you can see, only a few people will ever experience the opportunity!

Also, if you're understanding what I'm saying look at the replayability value! You will most likely get a different set of children every time you replay the game! You can replay over and over and over again and you'll probably never see the exact same 4 children from a wife - ever!

Nonetheless, I'll consider what you've said and we'll go from there - thanks for the comments!

By the way, I'm considering the following skill leadership reduction changes:

1. Glory - reduction does not apply to Undead. Since the skill is in the Paladin Tree I've considered removing Undead from the Leadership Reduction Requirements bonus.
2. Necromancy - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%.
3. Ranged Specialist - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%.
4. Archmage - change it from -5, -10, and -15% to -2, -5, and -10%.

From skills:
1. Skeleton Archer: -10% + -15% +-15% = -40%!
2. Necromancer: -10% +-15% +-15% = -40%!

Changes would drop both of these to:
1. Skeleton Archer: -10% +-10% = -20%
2. Necromancer: -10% +-10% = -20%

Which would be half of what it is now and probably a lot better.

I've made the fixes to kid_dace in xeona_babies.txt and that will be in my next update - thanks again for pointing that out!

Okay, feel free to provide any additional comments - I also hope you've learned a bit more about modding!

/C\/C\

[Fatt_Shade]

4) This is in the original game and I'm not even sure if the game actually uses it, but I left it alone when modding the skill.
Captain what does this DO ? I dont know men, but leave it alone
5) I know about that stats, but my mistake i read it wrong, thought you give absolute value there. Thx for clearing it out anyway.
6) about rina`s kids, every give min 3% lds for all undead, so with 4 kids, and her 6%, +necromancy it = minimum 33%, without partial lds bonus form each kid, and without glory skill. That`s worst case scenario, in best you could 2*9+14+6(kids)+6(rina)+15(necromancy)+10glory= wait for it ... 69% lds reduction for whole undead race. With all stats bonus from kids/rina and imagine warrior with some 20k lds, with that army (skeleton archer=4 lds or less).
Maybe i think still in CW/AP mod, because there is late game everything % better then absolute value : 1000lds is sick bonus early game, but later when hero have 20k+ lds 10% for undead(or any other) race is much better because it`s equal to 2000+ lds at that time much better then. I`ll try to see what happens, because i took rina and we are waiting for our first little undead toddler to come along
Feanora : kid_young_sandro i didnt mean mistake, just he gives lds for undead, and she`s nature creature, bonus for neutrals and some human unit. It doesn`t feel right.
kid_voy i thought to move him to mirabella because all his sea stats bonus, mirabella=pirate, no other reason.
Mirabella : kid_aislinn have this string in mod{} sp_kid_aislinn=count,1 What does it do ?
7) about that i just thought to have 1 kid give bonus magic dmg/res and other poison dmg/res, not mix them up.
sp_power_inc=
sp_power_mod= nice idea, thx for info.

Ok so far that`s it, i`ll report if find anything else take care ppl

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

6) about rina`s kids, every give min 3% lds for all undead, so with 4 kids, and her 6%, +necromancy it = minimum 33%, without partial lds bonus form each kid, and without glory skill. That`s worst case scenario, in best you could 2*9+14+6(kids)+6(rina)+15(necromancy)+10glory= wait for it ... 69% lds reduction for whole undead race. With all stats bonus from kids/rina and imagine warrior with some 20k lds, with that army (skeleton archer=5lds or less).

Yah, but you're ignoring probability once again. Look up the chance of getting that in my previous post - you will most likely never see it!

I'm going to hammer you on this - probability, probability, probability! It is irrelevant to talk about the max since is highly improbable. If you can't get past this, then you're going to keep tripping over max. I hope you don't play the lottery and think that your 1$ investment means you're going to win 10's of millions of dollars, but that's the argument you're trying to make. It could happen, but it is so improbable that why not let someone enjoy their win?

Now the norm is something to talk about and that is why I'm considering the skill changes so that with Rina's kids you'll usually see somewhere between -18 to -24% LR to Undead. Glory no longer will apply and then Necromancers and Skeleton Archers will still get -20% due to the Ranged Specialist / Archmage and Necromancy. So those units could get a really good bonus of -44% which is pretty good and then you could get Galthran or Moandor for even better LR: -70% for Skeleton Archers and -55% for Necromancers both incredibly awesome and maybe too high.

Now if we focus on either case, which is 1 out of 19 plays then we can consider making a change on this basis.

I have actually thought about Rina's (and all the wives for that matter) children -LR bonuses a lot and have often considered reducing it more. You're tipping me more towards a change to her, but I'll think about it some more.

One other thing I want to point out is that -Leadership Requirements can be offset by other bonuses so don't be so enamored with it.

I encourage you to keep trying to find stuff like this as there are many permutations and I've tried to think of most of them and the important point is to determine their probability and then play it and see how it really pans out!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Maybe i think still in CW/AP mod, because there is late game everything % better then absolute value : 1000lds is sick bonus early game, but later when hero have 20k+ lds 10% for undead(or any other) race is much better because it`s equal to 2000+ lds at that time much better then. I`ll try to see what happens, because i took rina and we are waiting for our first little undead toddler to come along

Yah, but you're only most likely talking about a Warrior, but remember he will probably only be able to get one spell school to Level 3 (especially if you're going to shoot for Necromancy Level 3). So he's going to need extra units and you may not be able to resurrect as many because of your lower intellect. So he probably needs the -LR stuff the most.

Don't forget that you can't change Rina into a Zombie while your waiting for your first child (or any children for that matter). Same goes with Feanora and Frog Feanora, the battle counter for children only increases while you're in their normal form. After you have all the babies that you want to have for those wives then you can transform them (or in Feanora's case you have to not talk to her for 10 battles to get her to transform).

Can't wait to hear how it goes for you and Rina! By the way, are you playing Warrior on Impossible? Or let me know which hero class and difficulty level you're playing.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Feanora : kid_young_sandro i didnt mean mistake, just he gives lds for undead, and she`s nature creature, bonus for neutrals and some human unit. It doesn`t feel right.

Yah, unfortunately to stay true to Young Sandro I can't change his skills so his Necromancy Skill is still there. I don't think it's too much of a stretch for Feanora to have a baby that dabbles in the Undead - she does come from a swamp you know and you know how those swamp kids like to hang out with zombies!

Mom? Guess who's coming to dinner? My friend, Noric!

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

kid_voy i thought to move him to mirabella because all his sea stats bonus, mirabella=pirate, no other reason.

Yah, I figured that - it is natural, but as it turns out Mirabella has a daughter, Sylvia, with the same HOMM3 Advanced Navigaion bonus as Voy. There other skill is different, though.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Mirabella : kid_aislinn have this string in mod{} sp_kid_aislinn=count,1 What does it do ?

I think you mean Rina's Aislinn? I mentioned this in my *.TXT file change list, but there is a bug where I can't determine if a child was on the hero apparently so I needed that bonus so that I can display her Evil Book bonus properly in your spell book. I'd like to actually query whether the child is "equipped", but when I played with it, I couldn't get it to work so I resorted to using a bonus.

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

7) about that i just thought to have 1 kid give bonus magic dmg/res and other poison dmg/res, not mix them up.
sp_power_inc=
sp_power_mod= nice idea, thx for info.

Ok so far that`s it, i`ll report if find anything else take care ppl

There are plenty of children that give the same damage / resistance bonus - the other PlanesWalker babies! Kalt and Lacus are the only two that are the way you saw them because of the reason I specified.

Well, thanks again for your comments!

Also, do me a favor and check to see whether you can Resurrect the Undead with the Resurrection Spell + Necromancy Skill Level 1. I have not gotten around to testing this out and so it may not work! Don't forget that it will still have the same level requirement restrictions: Level 1 - Units Level 1-2, Level 2, Units Level 1-3, and Level 3 - Units Level 1-4.

I'm also going to make the skill changes like I mentioned in the previous post and I'll think more about the Wife + Baby -Leadership Requirement bonuses some more as this is an area that I've given a lot of thought to and I find that I return to it to question whether or not the bonus values are right from time to time.

Keep questioning what I'm doing, too, as that's the only way to help me think outside the box I've made!

/C\/C\

[MattCaspermeyer]

Okay, I thought about this a little more and have made some minor tweaks for now.

I looked at what I did for the Necromancy Skill (HOMM3 Necromancy Skill) and before it decreased Leadership Requirement of Undead and added to the Power of Necro Call. Now it will only decrease LR of Undead - the Necro Call bonus will be removed.

Two of Rina's HOMM3 babies have Animated Dead. This acted just like the HOMM3 Necromancy skill where it decreased LR of Undead and added to the power of Necro Call. Now it will only add to the power of Necro Call, so two of the Heroes that were -6% LR to Undead now drop to -3% LR to Undead.

Next I looked at Isra who had Expert Necromancy. A bonus to Undead Spiders was not in the game so she also had a bonus to Undead Spiders; however, this effectively gave her 4 skill points instead of 3, so what I've done is dropped her Expert Necromancy to Advanced + Undead Spiders. So now she goes from -9 to -6% LR Undead.

Next Vidomina had Expert Necromancy and Bone Dragons, once again 4 skill points instead of 3. So I moved the Bone Dragons to Lord Haart (since his HOMM3 bonus is Black Knights, and Tamika has Black Knights already and no one had Bone Dragons) so that Vidomina now has just Expert Necromancy with -9% LR to Undead and then Lord Haart has Advanced Necromancy and Bone Dragons.

So now there is Vidomina with -9%, Isra and Lord Haart with -6%, and everyone else with -3% LR to Undead. So now the total is -24% +Rina's -6% so 30% max, but the chance of getting it is 1/19 * 2/18 * 1/17 * 15/16 = 0.0322% or 1 in 3101. So you'll more than likely just get -18% to -21% (including Rina's bonus).

I know this doesn't seem like much of a change, but think about the fact that Rina's children's other bonuses are very limited due to the Necromancy bonuses. So I'm thinking a minor tweak like this might go a long ways.

The proof is in the pudding - I need you to playtest it and see how you're doing late in the game. I'm a little worried that Rina might not have enough bonuses for you to last and you might have to swtich to another wife. I know that Skeleton Archers are mowed down with reckless abandon and so I actually think you might need a lot to do well. Also, Undead do not get any morale bonuses and so I think you may need an advantage like this. Rina's kids are kind of quantity over quality, but I'm hoping you're able to be successful with her late in the game.

I've also made the skill changes I've mentioned previously...

Should be able to send out the update to you soon...

/C\/C\