FMB Poll

[Rattlehead]

When I play the game, I spend a good portion of my time with the FMB. The ability to create your own custom missions and campaigns has always been a big appeal for me, both in Il-2 and in other games where level editors are open to the community.
I spent an unhealthy amount of time with the original FMB, as well as the creating missions for LOMAC and Crysis too.
I've forced myself to stop, because it just takes too much energy out of me.
For example, I spent four months, day in day out, for up to ten hours a day creating a single mission for Crysis. Never again.

But I have as much fun building missions as flying...although I fear the scripting will be something I won't delve into much, which is a pity because that is where the true power of this FMB lies.

[Blackdog_kt]

Guys, in all fairness the previous FMB wasn't exactly user friendly either. First time i tried it ages ago i tried to place a flight on an airport and couldn't, i found the need to manually deselect each object confusing (i would just open the object browser, select something and voila, my carefully crafted flight plan for my 190s would turn into a static gun on the field ) and so on.

Between the control-clicking, deselecting each object manually and having to use undocumented keyboard shortcuts to orient the objects on the map, i just stopped using it until a few months ago that i made my first coop, and that was thanks to the community resource site i linked before.

It's just that people have gotten used to it and all its quirks after all these years and they have some trouble getting used to the new quirks of the new FMB because it upsets long-established habits.

As to why scripting is there, it's very simple: even when we get a point-and-click graphical front-end for the most common functions and triggers, a graphical interface can only account for so much functions, usually the most commonly used ones.

I'd rather have the possibility of someone knowledgeable creating some code for more complex features, than not having it at all because i wouldn't be able to use it. It's like saying "if i can't do it, nobody should" and it feels like resisting progress a bit to me.
Sure, we need documentation and a simpler point-and-click interface for certain things, no denying that.

However, nobody in their right mind can expect that to match what the same programmer who codes the front-end could come up with in a custom-coded script. It's just the way things are, we can't all be good at everything, i'm just glad that the avenue is there for those who are to create some content for the rest of us.

[KG26_Alpha]

Unfortunately the complexity of the new stuff plus the bug/feature is grinding a lot of new users down including the old ones.

As an IL2 user from 2001 CoD is putting many barriers up to make life difficult to get everyone enthusiastic.

The GUI across the board needs sorting its way too complex and unreliable until things get sorted,


frustrating !!

IMHO
.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

As to why scripting is there, it's very simple: even when we get a point-and-click graphical front-end for the most common functions and triggers, a graphical interface can only account for so much functions, usually the most commonly used ones.

I'd rather have the possibility of someone knowledgeable creating some code for more complex features, than not having it at all because i wouldn't be able to use it. It's like saying "if i can't do it, nobody should" and it feels like resisting progress a bit to me.
Sure, we need documentation and a simpler point-and-click interface for certain things, no denying that.

However, nobody in their right mind can expect that to match what the same programmer who codes the front-end could come up with in a custom-coded script. It's just the way things are, we can't all be good at everything, i'm just glad that the avenue is there for those who are to create some content for the rest of us.

Who said anything about curtailing those who can make sense of C#? I said we need a WYSIWYG Click&Point Interface for the basic functions (and maybe an update or two after a while to incorporate more - or maybe MG can even come up with some kind of self-updating Interface which simply reads the script files thrown into a sub-folder). Right now the FMB is almost useless for the average user because the "higher functions" (= those that make missions interesting) are limited to a small "elite". How should the community come up with campaigns the same way it did for the predecessor when we can't figure out how to make the FMB do what we want it to do?

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, i think it will be just like the old days: people slowly started collecting missions, skins and campaigns in community repositories and now we have websites like mission4today with thousands of resources.

I think the same thing will happen with CoD too, just that on top of missions and skinning there will also be script libraries.

Just out of curiosity, are the higher FMB functions you mention new features or not? I mean, does the new FMB have the tools to do what the old one did without scripting and the scripts are something higher up the list, or do we need scripts to do things we could do with menus in the old FMB? Mind you, i'm talking about just the FMB, not external tools like FBDj and the like, the latter fall into the category of community created tools.

If the new FMB has the tools to do whatever the old one did (even if a couple of menus/functions have been moved around a bit), then i think there's no reason to be unhappy. Correct me if i'm wong, but things like limiting flyable aircraft by type are not stock FMB functions in IL2 either and came with external community add-ons, we waited for them to come along just like we are waiting for the scripts today.

If previously point-and-click functions have been moved to scripting, then i can understand the point. If not and scripting is for entirely new things then i can't sympathize with the viewpoint: it would be like expecting to be able to use something without spending some time to work with it just because it's there, similar to thinking i should be able to run the game maxed out no matter what or be good with every single aircraft i fly. I'm not passing judgement on you guys, i'm just saying how it feels to me personally.

To clarify, even though i would like the same outcome i think i also have to maintain reasonable expectations in terms of features and usability gained over time, it's how we get there that differs in my mind and not if we need to get there

If the "higher functions" are things that didn't exist altogether in the previous FMB then complexity is to be expected until someone (devs or community) comes up with a tool that automates the process somewhat, which is similar to how a lot of the better features happened with the old series too. I've been with IL2 since 2001 and the first year and a half things were very similar to CoD in many regards, i distinctly remember spending most of my time on European Air War because IL2 was full of quirks and nuances i didn't get at the time. After a while, people experimented and came up with useful knowledge and new content and i made the switch to full time IL2.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Just out of curiosity, are the higher FMB functions you mention new features or not? I mean, does the new FMB have the tools to do what the old one did without scripting and the scripts are something higher up the list, or do we need scripts to do things we could do with menus in the old FMB? Mind you, i'm talking about just the FMB, not external tools like FBDj and the like, the latter fall into the category of community created tools.

This is what I wanted to ask as well.
The only complaint I have heard is that it is not possible to make delayed group start without scripts. This is not true, it is explained many times how to do it using a trigger in the FMB itself without C# scripting, e.g. recent brief description here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...74&postcount=5

This can be also done with a script (see link #2 in my sig for a copy-paste solution) but this is just an extra free bonus to what we had in original IL-2 and not obligatory at all.

Is there anything particular that was not included into CloD FMB but was present the Il-2 one?

BTW it is hard and time consuming to make new missions from scratch. I almost never have patience for this. It is much more easier to change and fine tune others' missions to your needs.

[He111]

I think i've worked out why i'm getting some GPU driver crashes and I think it has to do with campaigns built in the FMB.

All stock-standard scenarios that came with COD work beautifully, it's the ones I create in the FMB that crash. I'll have to test this further but maybe once I get a setup i'm happy with, i'll need to create a new campaign from scratch using that setup, save and don't stuff around with it. it's possibly the testing and stuffing around that might corrupt the file ?????

Need to test this further ...

.

[SQB]

I use it all the time, create "Sink The Marat!" in CLOD to learn the stuka (It is way harder now, I think the airbrake is way worse in the CLoD stuka), learn to fly planes, check out ground units, practice strategies.

It is really quick and easy to use, basically:
View object, find the object you want, click it, CTRL click somewhere on the map (this spawns the object).
If the object is a plane: Group properties to pick its side, number of units (you could have a whole flight under one "dot") fuel load, payload etc. Then you will see in the view object browser for that unit a list of numbers up the top, these are individual planes. Select the one you want and check the box that says player piloted or somesuch.

That's just from memory so watch out for the gratuitous amount of errors

[senseispcc]

The bug that block my use of the FMB on a regular basis is the weather system that is badly documented and also does crash the game when used in certain way.

[Blackdog_kt]

That's because the weather module is unfinished, possibly even pre-beta material.

Luthier once said it would be completely omitted from the initial release, the only reason it's there is that a lot of us asked for it so they gave it to us in a sort of "use at your own risk" way, just to experiment. In other words it's not meant to work well, it's just the early rough draft they were working on and only got released because of community pressure, so that we could experiment with it.