AI is on top of my list

[nearmiss]

Buddye has done a fabulous job with the BOB II WOV. I mean fabulous AI performance after hundreds and hundreds of hours working with the AI. Then going back and forth with the community of users for feedback.

Alas, the problem with most gamer type developers their ego gets in the way. Then we get stuff like MSFT CFS3 from Hatfield that just ruined a great sim with his so-called improvements. I knew it would be junk when I started it the first time, the pilots were hanging around the garbage cans.

It would great if Luthier consulted with Buddye, he couldn't do better. I say that because NO ONE has a better AI performance package for WW2 air combat sims. I think I own every WW2 air combat sim produced for the past 12 years, so I haven't missed much.

Glad you dropped in Buddye, I'm glad to toot a horn for you.

[jimbop]

Originally Posted by adonys

you guys seem to forget a simple truth: the IL2 series numbers are based on singleplayer, not multiplayer.

the game sold tens of thousands of units, yet a very small fraction of those could be meet online playing the MP part. a thousand? maybe 2? for sure under 10% of game's buyers.

stop the nonsense that IL2 strength is in MP. The longevity yes, it is based and rests on MP, but not the game's sales number, which is the thing that makes MG tick..

And the thing is, even now, half a year later, the SP part of IL2 CoD is completly broken. One can't play anything else excepting simple dogfight missions because of this.

The game's stability, and then its performance, were the logical first needed fixes, as you can hardly play a game which is a crash fest, or crawls at 5 FPS on 2011 supercomputers. As those were fixed, the next pririty ones should be, in exactly this order:

1) Radio Comm - affecting both game modes, it completly porks SP and gravely affects with AI MP (until much more MP players will join, with the actual online numbers you can't really play anything else except dogfights if you're not adding complementary AI)
2) AI - same as above, out-of-this-world AI maneuvers, performances and behavior are really killing both game modes
3) dynamic weather
4) dynamic campaign

Yes, adonys is making sense here. MP is essential but should be built on a strong SP platform. Anyway, AI is required for MP as well.

[NedLynch]

Originally Posted by Bloblast

Not top but 2nd.

My current wishlist is:
1-communication
2-AI
3-dynamic campaign

+1

[Madfish]

Some very fine posts have been made in this thread, thanks for that. I recommend anyone who's new skimming through - it'll be worth it.

That said I want to point one other thing out:

Originally Posted by nearmiss

It is hard to care about the Offline player when that isn't your interest.

The thing is that AI also affect all online combat if it's not pure dogfighting. A lot of the dynamic campaign efforts and co-op missions depend on it. So I would say it not only affects offline players but almost certainly the majority of all online players as well.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Codex

Didn't Illya say in one of his updates that he had recently hired someone or was going to hire someone with sole purpose of reworking the AI in CoD?

True. It's the same guy that will redo the radio commands menu. According to that post by Luthier, he will do the radio commands first and then move on to the AI.

By the way there are some new placeholder commands in the latest beta patch (they don't work yet, they are just there in the menus) that are giving me much hope for what will come.

I saw commands to specific crew members in bombers, for example asking your co-pilot to report speed or altitude, have him operate flaps or landing gear, order the gunners to hold fire, etc.

Good stuff is coming and yes, it will be useful both for SP and MP

[nearmiss]

I remember several years back building missions. I was stopped dead in my tracks so often by poor AI, and lack of comms ability to have any power of your player flights...except go home.

Pokryshkin developed tactics to beat the Germans in G2s and 190s, by using his flight groups at tiered altitude levels. The p40s were at lower altitudes to take on the german bombers. The P39s would drop in from tiered altitude levels when the german fighters went for the p40s. Pokryshkin kept the E advantage with flights at several levels higher and as the battle advanced they would drop down incrementally. The p39s with those big cannons in the nose made short work of the german fighters.

I could not keep the Russian fighters at the tiered levels. The moment the germans attacked the p40s all the p39s from all levels, except player would drop into the fur ball. The P39s were no match for the G2s or 190s without E advantage.

So, yes communications with power for managing flight groups is very necessary. I'm just thinking in terms of this one example.

You can tactically fly Online with comms, but Offline you are subject to whatever a stupid (ultra-stupid) AI aircraft will do.

I realize good ai performance makes a difference online, but there was never much flak from online players about AI performance as I recall.

[Madfish]

Actually what I meant was that with this new completely open design AI planes could be used much more constantly than in the old IL2.

Actually there could be a constant presence of certain flights on almost all servers. Basically what I want to say is that the new multiplayer could involve a lot more AI than it did in the past. Huge dynamic campaigns or constant scenarios that have a realistic amount of AI planes, ships and ground vehicles present at any time.

Good example regarding AI though. I wonder if somethink alike would / could be implemented.

[nearmiss]

As I understand it. WHen COD is working at finished levels 128x128 should be realistic number of aircraft in air combat at one time = 256 planes.

That would be a whopping big order to put together that many human players at one time.

AI is the only possibility for large groups of planes in the air at one time.

So... I would naturally think the devs have good understanding that competent AI performance would be required.

[Iku_es]

My current wishlist is:
1-communication
2-AI
3-dynamic campaign

+1

Once they have the game optimized, revamping the AI is necessary.
I play a lot offline, because I don't have enough free time to look for a populated server and pair up with wingies. Just 10 minutes to start the game, and try to shoot some bad guys. Fighting against either planes flying bee lines or crazy rolling AI planes is not very funny and also it teach you a lot of bad habbits .

256 online players mixed with AI ... it would be an amazing experience but, today, it seem unlikely to me. That will put our system above their capabilities. If I try to join a sever with 256 players and Ai planes buzzing arround, my PC will laught at me.
My system is not a "Top specs" one, but when I play online, everytime an AI flight is spawned or a player joins the server, i have heavy stutters.
My guess is that this situation will improve with the following patches.

Maybe in 2013, we can experience massive online raids over London, who knows. (Fingers crossed)

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by buddye

I also am very interested in AI. As a volunteer BDG (BOB Development Group) member, I have worked on the BOBII AI over 6 years trying to improve it and make it more human like.

The AI is not just designing to a spec. The AI is more of an art.

Well, I know I'm certainly not alone in appreciating the efforts of development teams and testers in trying to make AI more advanced and believeable. As you say, it is something of an art form and sadly something that seems to be a dying art form at that.
However, to me and I'm sure many others, great AI is every bit as important as other aspects of a game, and it's something that should never be ignored or skimmed over by developers.