crash at duxford today [2011]

I was airborne when it haopened,good to know that Rob miraculously got out ok!

I believe that the accident happened for three reasons:
1) you DON'T do that opening from a Vic formation,you do it from Echelon,poor planning made by people that obviously aren't that competent.

2) you tend not to do these manoeuvres with planes that have different performances,and if you do..

3) ..you dont go for a 2 secs break interval,you go for a 5 secs one.

Flying Legends has been under the CAA radar for years cos of it's previous accidents,this might well be the last year of it,cos it's a mixture of pilot's error (one French pilot has been grounded on Sat,the other one will be as well probably) and inadequate preparation/briefing.

Lots of pilots with mixed experience,a lot of planes all over the place..
I was there on Sat and me and my friend from the Air Force were a bit surprised by some of the procedures..

Anyway,on a funny/gossip note: the plane had just been sold to a new German owner,who was watching the show,so there must have been the French pilot going "XXXX!",the English pilot going "XXXX!" and the German owner going "XXXXXXXX!" all at the same time

[Viper2000]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger

Flying Legends has been under the CAA radar for years cos of it's previous accidents,this might well be the last year of it,cos it's a mixture of pilot's error (one French pilot has been grounded on Sat,the other one will be as well probably) and inadequate preparation/briefing.

The closest thing to a warbird crash I've ever seen was a Martlet conducting a barrel roll at Duxford from an inadvisable altitude, bottoming out so low that I couldn't help but close my eyes (<10 feet; it was very "barrelled", the peak being perhaps 80 feet, and it seemed pretty obvious that the pilot had just underestimated how much it would drop during the rest of the manoeuvre - perhaps he was used to flying something which rolled faster?). That was probably 15 years ago or more.

The funny thing is that almost nobody else seemed to take any notice. Only about half were even watching (it wasn't a big airshow day), and I suppose most of the people who were assumed that it was deliberate. Perhaps it was, but I doubt it, and if it was then the pilot was rather too bold for my taste.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger

Anyway,on a funny/gossip note: the plane had just been sold to a new German owner,who was watching the show,so there must have been the French pilot going "*****!",the English pilot going "****!" and the German owner going "********!" all at the same time

All of which would probably have been as nothing when compared with the tirade coming from the insurer's office...

Duxford has a terrible cross wind, and in years gone by this has been blamed. The state of the runway is dreadful, it is littered with FOD all over from the damage to it which is never or rarely repaired.
It is a great shame as Flying Legends is the only place to see all these beautiful aircraft at once, but thats part of the problem, too many aircraft in the air and on the ground at once without extra vigilant co-ordination.

There is something deeply wrong with the display's setup and co-ordination, 4 deaths and countless accidents resulting in the loss of some very rare aircraft including the Blenhiem, P38, Air Cobra, Hurricane and Spitfire just to name the major ones in the last 15 years shows that actions need to be taken.
I think their future looks very bleek right now and as sad as i am to say it quite rightly so.
Crowd managment is a shambles, you can actually walk around to the back side of the field to watch the display! If ever a plane came down there, there would be major fatalities.
Last year with the 16 spitfires, my life ! It was a stunning sight but take off was like wacky racers, it looked totally un organized. Scary stuff.
Also they push the boundaries in how close they fly to the crowd for sure.

[JG52Krupi]

Giant carebear wait for the official report before jumping down officials throat.

No one died that is the main thing.

[bongodriver]

I have seen 3 fatal crashes first hand, one was the sea fury 'baby gorilla' which Paul morgan was killed in, and in 2 separate incidents I have lost 4 colleagues and a good aquaintance (Ted Girdler) killed in a display at eastbourne.

it may seem 'inhuman' to some the concept of filming a fatal crash but the footage would be more than usefull for investigations and could even be beneficial to answer questions bereaved relatives may have...when they are ready for it, if you are filming anyway....like many do at airshows or just aviation enthusiasts who film everything that fly's then dont stop recording for the sake of some misguided 'respect', just dont give the footage to the media or youtube first.

My 2C

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Giant carebear wait for the official report before jumping down officials throat.

No one died that is the main thing.

huh Explain

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by BigPickle

huh Explain

The part about flying legends future looking bleak, its pointless to point fingers at anyone atm, wait for the official investigation.

*I may have taken your post the wrong way it sounded like you wanted flying legends shut, sorry if i got the wrong impression.

[ckolonko]

Originally Posted by swiss

rofl!

Its true. In the vintage aircraft world an aircraft may contain very few original parts of the aircraft and still be considered an original warbird. An interesting read is the Haynes Spitfire manual. It shows how Spitfires are restored and also provides information regarding what is considered an original warbird and what is seen as a 'New' Aircraft.

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

*I may have taken your post the wrong way it sounded like you wanted flying legends shut, sorry if i got the wrong impression.

Its ok mate no harm done at all. I love Flying Legends but its clear that they need to make major changes to the situation. The reason i say bleak is because the CAA has major issues with the way the show has been operated for a long time.
It will be a big blow for aviation if the worst happens, but i think they'll struggle through it, i just hope they change their setup and make it safer rather than cram too much into too shorter time slots.

[Mysticpuma]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Sorry but I can't let this go. People like you bug the XXXXXXXX crap out of me. Only interestede in a 'creepy peepshow'.
Yes I videoed the whole event yesterday; yes I saw what happended, yes I immidietely then turned my camera off.

I realise had I had filmed the event then it would've been perhaps helpful to the air crash invistigation team at a later date & some good comes out of such footage but I'm glad my footage isn't used to entertain XXXXX like you.

Sadly you couldn't be more wrong. I actually work as a Professional Photographer and I would have carried on shooting and/or filming for far-more than Ghoulish reasons, which you sadly misconceive I have

When it comes to the actual collision, 20 people will have 20 points of view about how it happened. Video footage is brilliant at capturing actual direction and detail of collisions as-well as has been pointed out, the result of this occurring.

From the images we have seen and has been readily discussed, it appears the Skyraider collided with the P-51, these are all impressions of the incident. Now, as we have video and we have both pilots, they can explain what they saw and what they perceive happened, along with the footage that shows the events.

Now allied to that, video would also show an exterior of BBD and what damage had occurred along with the Pilots behaviour on bailing and also his position on landing relative to the crash site. If he had not been so lucky the video would have also have shown why he had failed in surviving. Now that doesn't mean I want to see/we want to see a Pilots demise posted her, but that video footage would have been incredibly useful to an ACI team figuring out why his chute never opened, if he hit a wing/tail/rudder all of which is denied by the moralistic POV of the video camera operator.

Sadly to be in a position to shoot that video doesn't mean you are a ghoul and if it does, surely posting any video clips of any incident fatal or non-fatal should all be censored as 'it's not right' to video this type of event (according to the moral viewpoint), however holding a video camera and filming an event is useful to the ACI, but as in this case no-one died, what is the point of not filming the incident, then bragging that it has been filmed (by showing the clip) and then saying "but I didn't think it was right, so I stopped filming!". If you didn't think it was right to film it, then why post footage afterwards? In which case, bragging rights go to the videographer, well done, you failed in capturing an important incident, but thanks for posting a clip that shows what happened but is not really much use to any pilots who find themselves in a similar (even if they are really unlucky) position.

I don't care if you consider me ghoulish, I presume the other 14,000 visitors to the Youtube link are similarly ghoulish, which is pretty much anyone who clicked on the link in this thread and was puzzled as to why a guy filming an important event turned his camera off and the other one turned his camera away.

I guess being a Professional makes me consider this event more important than others, it's shame I was one of the only ones to voice my opinion and been targeted because I can't understand why someone would stop filming something so interesting?

Odd.

MP