Teach me, expert players of Armored Princess

[kcwong]

Originally Posted by Saiko Kila

Another, more tricky spell to consider is "suicide bomber" a.k.a. Kamikaze, which, despite its description, can be cast on most enemies, including summons (for example of goblin tower...) and ranged units (which tend to stay away from you, so are usually safe to be blown out).

In my current game I have trouble upgrading most of my items (valued 4000 and up). I tried again today, and remembered your tip about Kamikaze... turns out you cannot use it on those towers.

Perhaps it can only be used with those summoned into play during the lizard boss fight?

Edit:

I finally managed to beat a huge stack on Verona and got the Elon map... but sadly no red dragons for me in both dragon lairs.

Currently my army is:
Cyclops 6/6
Red Dragon 2/4
Black Dragon 3/3
Emerald Green Dragon 4/4
Troll 8/8
Paladin 41/41

I switch cyclops with paladin if I can foresee taking more damage from level 5 enemies (I can't limit them with target).

[Saiko Kila]

Originally Posted by kcwong

In my current game I have trouble upgrading most of my items (valued 4000 and up). I tried again today, and remembered your tip about Kamikaze... turns out you cannot use it on those towers.

Perhaps it can only be used with those summoned into play during the lizard boss fight?

My wording can be a bit misleading but what I meant was that you can use it on summons of goblin towers, not goblin towers proper. Summons often stay next to the tower to protect it and to be as far from you as possible, so they're a perfect target of Kamikaze.

As for spells against Goblin Towers, the best spell is Death Star, and then much weaker but mana conserving Magic Axe. Tactics is a must for using Death Star. With high Intelligence DS will kill any goblin tower(s) in game, so it's best for mages. Other good one for high-level mage with items strengthening damage spells is common Fire Arrow - it doesn't make them burn, but can be quite deadly, almost like Magic Axe III and it costs three times less mana.

My best anti-gremlin, ranged units are Demonologists - I always have much luck with them and their availability though. Actually I call them "demo" for "demolition" and not for "demon" They have unique damage (fire, magic and physical) and are quite sturdy. I don't use close combat units against evil gremlin towers, and friendly gremlins are non-issue.

Originally Posted by kcwong

I finally managed to beat a huge stack on Verona and got the Elon map... but sadly no red dragons for me in both dragon lairs.

Currently my army is:
Cyclops 6/6
Red Dragon 2/4
Black Dragon 3/3
Emerald Green Dragon 4/4
Troll 8/8
Paladin 41/41

I switch cyclops with paladin if I can foresee taking more damage from level 5 enemies (I can't limit them with target).

Personally I prefer tactics where I can resurrect easily my troops, so for most of the game I use only EGD (always) and trolls (I change them for other units, like evil beholders, during day) from Level 5.

And while I get red dragons late, usually it's from eggs or from Wanderer Scroll named Call Colossus. Save before using, if you got some crap then use it again later, after feeding some Pseudorandom Numbers to other actions, for example by using different summoning scroll.

[Quelthos]

I am up to level 21, currently. Mostly clearing Verona at the moment. Right now I am using 3/3 giants, 1/3 EGD, 5/5 trolls and 4/4 cyclops.

I have level 3 distortion, level 2 order magic. I mostly use geyser, mana spring, fear, healing and slow, with exorcism for undead as needed. I have level 2 higher magic and concentration, level 3 alchemy, the left side of the mind tree and the dragon skills in the might tree at level 1, among others. I'll probably take level 1 in Thesis next.

As far as the dragon, I use ball of lightning and mana accelerator almost exclusively until the fight is out of hand, where I'll dig up my treasure. The giants + geyser are fantastic for maxing out my rage repeatedly. This is very similar to the setup I used in the first game, though I'd like to eventually find some dragons to round out my army. I may settle for ogres in the meantime.

[impy]

Originally Posted by kcwong

In my current game I have trouble upgrading most of my items (valued 4000 and up). I tried again today, and remembered your tip about Kamikaze... turns out you cannot use it on those towers.

Perhaps it can only be used with those summoned into play during the lizard boss fight?

Edit:

I finally managed to beat a huge stack on Verona and got the Elon map... but sadly no red dragons for me in both dragon lairs.

Currently my army is:
Cyclops 6/6
Red Dragon 2/4
Black Dragon 3/3
Emerald Green Dragon 4/4
Troll 8/8
Paladin 41/41

I switch cyclops with paladin if I can foresee taking more damage from level 5 enemies (I can't limit them with target).

with your army set up i wonder why you carry paladins with you. paladins ressurect units up to level 4, so not for that, they give second turn again up to level 4, so not for that. they are not exactly heavy hitters and are terribly slow speed and initiative wise, you would have to teleport them. They are also used as "damage soaker" with target and stoneskin cast on them, in order to protect other units but with heavy 5th level units you have, there is not need. Looking at your set up, if you insist on keeping those level 5 units, i would replace paladins with some elf range units

[kcwong]

I use cyclops most of the time. But some battles have multiple level 5 stacks (e.g. 2 black dragon stacks and 1 red) and they just love frying my cyclops so much that even Divine Shield can't handle it.

So in those fights I use paladins instead, which I can easily resurrect with Phantom I-III.

Turn Back Time works on everything, but I must cast the level III version for level five creatures, and it must be right after the damage happens. That makes it much harder to use when there are still plenty of enemies around.

[impy]

looking at your leadership, seems you are right in the middle of middlegame. Of course, if you are not playing no loss game, there is nothing to worry about. But if you do later in the game this setup will get hit much nastier and you might not be able to keep up with time back requirements, dragons can only take so much. Don't know how you spent your mind runes, but Voice of the dragon 3 is brilliant, gives +2morale to dragons, which is 20% to defence (i think..) which is percent based and means huge bonus to dragons surviving capabilities.
Neverthless, dragons are known as a very bad choice for end game bosses, but you are far from that.
Best of luck.

[kcwong]

Originally Posted by impy

looking at your leadership, seems you are right in the middle of middlegame.

I've unlocked Elon, Nameless Island, the two Orc islands as well. I managed to defeat some stacks on them. I have 9 trolls, 7 cyclops, 3/5 reds, 5 greens and 4 blacks.

Originally Posted by impy

Of course, if you are not playing no loss game, there is nothing to worry about. But if you do later in the game this setup will get hit much nastier and you might not be able to keep up with time back requirements, dragons can only take so much.

That's true... the enemy stacks are getting bigger and bigger, sometimes even stoneskined trolls have trouble. In some fights my black dragons had about 100 HP left, doing nothing except opening chests and spewing fire every few turns.

I have no real preference for unit types though, I only want this to be a no loss impossible mage game. I am trying to kite on Elon... if there is an Elven Bow somewhere I will have the +9 Int set. There's a dress for sale that gives bonus to elven troops, so maybe I can switch to a full elven line-up.

Originally Posted by impy

Don't know how you spent your mind runes, but Voice of the dragon 3 is brilliant, gives +2morale to dragons, which is 20% to defence (i think..) which is percent based and means huge bonus to dragons surviving capabilities.
Neverthless, dragons are known as a very bad choice for end game bosses, but you are far from that.
Best of luck.

I have Learning III and Absolute Balance III, Neatness II, and their prerequisites at I. I still have about 20 mine runes.

Magic tree is almost maxed - Wisdom I, all magic schools III, Magic Light III, Destruction III, High Magic III, Transmute II, Thesis III, Linguistics II.

Might tree - Anger I, Dragon Training III, Rage Control III. About 8 might runes left.

[impy]

You see, you admit yourself your black dragons sometimes have hard time and therefore are not that useful. and it will not get any better as the game progresses. Maybe it is time to replace them. For example: take advantage of paladin's circle resurrection. Get archer unit which will stand right next to paladins and will get resurrected along with them at the end of the battle. Or get summoning units - royal griffins, demonologists, demons, dryads..that way you get expendable meatshield.
You will have to replace all 5th level units before end game battles anyway.

I do not follow your skills selection. Yes, even on impossible no loss game the middle game tends to be not-that-difficult, but still..
Mage character should specialize from the beginning.
1) Devastator : high intelect and mana, casting pretty much only damaging spells - geyser, death star, fire rain etc. This character ignores light magic, transmute, order magic and goes quickly after chaos 3, higher magic, concentration, destruction etc, hero equipment boosts primarily int/mana, mind tree also focuses on int boosters first.
2) Supporter :buffing/debuffing armies - summoning, battle cry, slow, fear etc. you name it. This character goes after distorsion, order, transmute, higher magic,summoning, while chaos, concentration, mana/int boosters are delayed. Mind tree - prayer, persuation etc.

Idea behind specialization is to excel in certain field.. As you can see from your chosen skills, you have bit of both; neither strong spellcaster or strong supporter. Your game maybe doable as it is, but if you are looking for perfection

But, I am suprised with your might tree skills.
Mage,as we know, does not generate as much rage as warrior, and apart from very rare dragon dive only casts mana acc., lightning ball + treasure. Now how many levels of pet dragon do you need to max out these 3 skills? 30 max. Is there therefore a need to boost dragon experience? No. Remember, you cannot use pet dragon in boss battles anyway. I personally go for rage around 50 only with mage, just enough to cast maxed lightning ball and have some decent calm rage. So Rage control 1, training 1 - but only as prerequisite for Anger 1-2. With rest of the runes you can either go after frenzy or boost your defence.

P.S. you do not mention to have concentration skill. I'm sure you have it. There is a reason why it is all the way at bottom of magic tree - it is one of the best

[kcwong]

Originally Posted by impy

You see, you admit yourself your black dragons sometimes have hard time and therefore are not that useful. and it will not get any better as the game progresses. Maybe it is time to replace them.

My black dragons got hurt because I sent them into biting a big but feared stack. Even with High Magic III sometimes I couldn't keep them all feared long enough, so I had to deal some damage fast. Of course I only do that when I calculate that my dragons won't die even on a critical hit.

I can still go a bit further with the dragons... though I've started seeing some big and tough stacks, like 2x20 Giants, 6 EGDs, about 200 Evil Beholders and about 100 Cannoneers guarding a map in Grand Canal, 14 Archdemons with lots of lesser demonic units in Abandoned Mines, and I know with my low leadership I won't be able to win without loss.

But still, it's my first time using so many dragons together, so I'll enjoy them as long as I can manage.

Originally Posted by impy

For example: take advantage of paladin's circle resurrection. Get archer unit which will stand right next to paladins and will get resurrected along with them at the end of the battle. Or get summoning units - royal griffins, demonologists, demons, dryads..that way you get expendable meatshield.
You will have to replace all 5th level units before end game battles anyway.

I kited around Nameless Island and got 57 Demonologists with me now, replacing 7 Cyclops. If I had to replaced Black Dragons I have near unlimited amount of Royal Griffins on several islands, and of course I have plenty of Paladins stashed in a castle.

Originally Posted by impy

I do not follow your skills selection. Yes, even on impossible no loss game the middle game tends to be not-that-difficult, but still..
Mage character should specialize from the beginning.
1) Devastator : high intelect and mana, casting pretty much only damaging spells - geyser, death star, fire rain etc. This character ignores light magic, transmute, order magic and goes quickly after chaos 3, higher magic, concentration, destruction etc, hero equipment boosts primarily int/mana, mind tree also focuses on int boosters first.
2) Supporter :buffing/debuffing armies - summoning, battle cry, slow, fear etc. you name it. This character goes after distorsion, order, transmute, higher magic,summoning, while chaos, concentration, mana/int boosters are delayed. Mind tree - prayer, persuation etc.

Idea behind specialization is to excel in certain field.. As you can see from your chosen skills, you have bit of both; neither strong spellcaster or strong supporter. Your game maybe doable as it is, but if you are looking for perfection

I made some mistakes reporting my skills - it's only Dragon Training 2, and I have Scouting III. Transmute is maxed, and my future magic runes are going into Concentration.

Early on I focused as a protective spell caster - keeping my stacks stoneskined, enemies feared, tough creatures helpless, etc.

Once I get all spell scrolls developed I invested in Intelligence and Mana increasing skills. I have around 40 Int. without equipping much Int artifacts. I have two Advisor's Dress, though with the Trolls and Dragons I prefer Slippery Cuirass and Leather Dress more, making them extremely tough.

I started casting more offensive spells late, hence I still have a little bit more spell uses to go for Fire Mage III and Trapper III medal.

Originally Posted by impy

But, I am suprised with your might tree skills.
Mage,as we know, does not generate as much rage as warrior, and apart from very rare dragon dive only casts mana acc., lightning ball + treasure. Now how many levels of pet dragon do you need to max out these 3 skills? 30 max. Is there therefore a need to boost dragon experience? No. Remember, you cannot use pet dragon in boss battles anyway. I personally go for rage around 50 only with mage, just enough to cast maxed lightning ball and have some decent calm rage. So Rage control 1, training 1 - but only as prerequisite for Anger 1-2. With rest of the runes you can either go after frenzy or boost your defence.

I had extra 10 might runes from the banner, hence I decided to spend more on the might tree for more max rage and faster rage gain - that translates to more mana during fights, and I can use dragon egg for meat shields or distraction.

My reason is that a bigger rage pool can't hurt... and I don't have a use otherwise for those might runes. All the big mine rune eaters in the magic tree are already maxed.

I use my dragon for digging, mana orb, egg and an occasional kick (mostly for traps) or lightning. Lightning didn't come up as upgrade choice as often as I'd like... I got offered kick, wall and egg more.

Originally Posted by impy

P.S. you do not mention to have concentration skill. I'm sure you have it. There is a reason why it is all the way at bottom of magic tree - it is one of the best

No I don't have it yet! But it's my next magic skill to get. I don't have any problem with mana flow before (and still don't), hence I delayed getting it.

[Petwin]

Impy wrote:

Mage,as we know, does not generate as much rage as warrior, and apart from very rare dragon dive only casts mana acc., lightning ball + treasure. Now how many levels of pet dragon do you need to max out these 3 skills? 30 max.

I totally argree with the skill use. Alas, to max them out can take a long time if the 3 upgrade choices per level are all for different skills. A lot of dragon levels are "lost" to upgrading Lava Call and Stone Wall.