Firefox...not the browser :-)

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by winny

Otklanyayemi Vektor Tyagi, It's what we call deflection thrust vectoring

Go (didn't quote the video) to see it in action At 5mins 40 is it does super cobra which is very impressive.

They've pretty much changed the translation to "orbital vectored thrust" lately.
The engine nozzles can be rotated independently to 15 degrees on each side, up-down, top-bottom, allowing crazy angle of attack and moves that make the old cobra look pedestrian.

I'm not sure if the mig ovt does this, but su-35 can also independently regulate the thrust of each engine, which allows it to keep the thrust outside the center of mass on turns and get crazy rotation power. It can do cobras that end in double backflips and do flat spins that barely lose altitude. It can also end tailslides sideways and has its own combat maneuver called "cobra roll" that uses the engine differential.

Why is ovt a good counter to stealth, because it stakes out the low-speed visual range combat, whereas stealth is based on higher-speed and beyond-visual range. The f-22 and f-35 are good fighters, but against the sukhois they would have to use high-speed tactics because they can't corner as well at low speed. That positions the stealth planes as more offensive, and the sukhois as more defensive, though they are still pretty fast.

[Robotic Pope]

Yeah the Mig29ovt can also move both nozels independantly.
See at 1:45. They move so life like, kind of scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hiv0tPEMiic

[flynlion]

Pretty cool. Has a MiG 29 ever won in air to air combat?

[Riceball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Q6Vb9xJM0

Watch at 1:25 & 2:35, The F-22 is just as impressive as anything else.

And both nozzles move independantly on this machine as well.

Edit: Now that I've read the entire thread, my post is a bit out of context. Also, it's funny that that Su-29 is red, white and blue.

[Shadowcorp]

i'd have to go with a sukhoi over a f22.
Steath technology with the advent of the anti stealth radar employed by the eurofighter and rafale is not all it's cracked up to be.
Plus haven't there been cases of f22 just losing all their electrics and dropping like rocks..... didn't something like that happen last year (i may be wrong).
And the fact you could have something like four sukhois to every one f22 in money terms
( did they ever make the su37 or was that just HAWX decieving me?)
Plus i like the idea of not having to store it in a temparature controlled hangar lol

[InfiniteStates]

I can see clearly that stealth is a one trick pony - but it "should" let you take the initiative. But can a plane not have both? Or is a stealth shape too unstable for OVT too?

[Shadowcorp]

sad but flight in it's space or terestrial form has intrigued me since star wars

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

I can see clearly that stealth is a one trick pony - but it "should" let you take the initiative. But can a plane not have both? Or is a stealth shape too unstable for OVT too?

Its expense that stop both on a single airframe. OVT can be used with stealth designs, its just extremely expensive to have both. The F22 when it was in pre-development (IE drawing board) was intended to have full 360 degree thrust vectoring but the sheer cost of development and contruction meant that they have to reduce the vectoring ability.

And a "cobra" manouvere is old hat now, its the "mongoose" thats the killer move. Check out some video's of the old X-31 program that was the test bed for full thrust vectoring. Its mind blowing stuff,

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Lexandro

Its expense that stop both on a single airframe. OVT can be used with stealth designs, its just extremely expensive to have both. The F22 when it was in pre-development (IE drawing board) was intended to have full 360 degree thrust vectoring but the sheer cost of development and contruction meant that they have to reduce the vectoring ability.

That's OK - the American tax payer has deep pockets

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

That's OK - the American tax payer has deep pockets

Not this American taxpayer. It's not too late to modify the f-35 with ovt and remove the vtol.

Su-37 was a testbed, it was never intended for production. There were only 1 or 2 ever made. Same with su-47. That didn't stop Ace Combat and Hawx from having whole squadrons of them though. When I played the Hawx demo, and at the end saw 4 su-47's attacking me, I knew it was Ace Combat 7, except you couldn't use cockpit view.

PAK-FA is supposedly going to have both ovt and stealth. No doubt they'll put ovt on it, or all that testing was for nothing. But the Russian government is also putting heavy pressure on them to make a stealth plane. That's probably why it's so far behind schedule. They were supposed to roll out this year, now they say early next year.