TBF Avenger and other planes

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

Thats what I think too.
You cant have every important plane in IL-2 as flyable. Besides, just check how awfully the Luftwaffe bomber force is represented! Missing entirely: Do-17, Do-217E series, late Ju-88, late He-111, Ju-188. AI only: Do-217K/M, Fw-200. Compare this to USN... Aveger is already ingame, as AI. The only plane that is REALLY missing, the Helldiver.

Of the list of German bombers, the one I'd most like to see if a flyable Fw-200. I really liked what TD was doing with the anti-shipping additions.

Speaking of which, it would also be dead simple to create a "North Atlantic" map. Take the existing "Coral Sea" map, change the latitude, longitude and temperature (winter and summer versions), and perhaps change the water color. Perfect environment for the new B-24D and the new U-boats.

If you wanted to get fancy, you could even do a map that includes a tiny bit of Greenland or Iceland at the North end of the map to give land-based planes a place to land.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Right with you there. Basically you'd either shoot at barely visible targets - and the bomber AI either is too good and guns you down the instant you open fire, or too bad and you shoot fish in a barrel.

I think that the appeal of night operations is mostly in the night-fighter end, since there's an art to tracking bombers using GCI and AI radar.

Night bombing might have some appeal, but unless we get some of the night bombing aids, it's mostly an exercise in instrument flying and dead reckoning. Challenging, but not unique to IL2 or to night bombers.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

And as custom or selectable belting has been requested many times and has not been done, I'd suppose that it is not that easy to do. And with current tracers and muzzle flashes, night fighting is merely a joke - you are blind the instant you fire, and all of the enemies open up at you at once.

Actually, unless you're flying in a dark room, the player ISN'T blinded by bright lights at night. That means your virtual pilot or tail gunner retains his night vision when he should be dazzled by searchlights, explosions or muzzle flashes.

Originally Posted by majorfailure

And having a flyable late war German bomber would definitely add to this sim - any of them.

There is the Ar-234, which is about as late war as German bombers get. But I don't think that's what you had in mind

[Sita]

yeah i want flyable Fw-200 too))

need find the person who could)

[IceFire]

This may not be what you had in mind for late war German bomber ... but many of the bomber squadrons transitioned from Ju88 and He111 to the bomber variant of the Me410. Then you could have a mid/late war German heavy fighter/destroyer, bomber, night fighter and whatever else the 410 was adapted to become and its all in one basically the same aircraft. At the same time you could probably have ventured off to do the Me210 and Me210Ca which wasn't too different from the Me410 to begin with.

That would have been ideal IMHO.

[ElAurens]

I don't claim to have a wealth of knowledge about Luftwaffe aircraft type utilization, but were not most of the bombers pretty much grounded in the late war period as what little fuel the Luftwaffe had available was deemed more important for use by fighters for air defense?

[Furio]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I don't claim to have a wealth of knowledge about Luftwaffe aircraft type utilization, but were not most of the bombers pretty much grounded in the late war period as what little fuel the Luftwaffe had available was deemed more important for use by fighters for air defense?

You’re right, I think. Let’s say that “late war” means end of 43, beginning of 44 as far as LW bombers are concerned.

[Furio]

These threads about wished planes are always popular, it seems, and as varied as usual. Nothing bad, here, as long as we understand that we are having a little fun… So, instead of adding another type to the wish list, I’ll try to make some general considerations.

Lets start acknowledging some limitations. Good old Il2 is efficient in simulating tactical, short-range combat, much less for strategic bombing or long-range missions (overseas excluded) for obvious limitation in maps size.
As I understand it, a map for Bomber Command squadrons going from UK to Berlin and back is out of question.
Moreover, it’s impossible to replicate realistically a 1,000 bombers mission, and even – if I’m not mistaken – an Eight AF combat wing.
Lastly, it’s hard to simulate correctly a whole strategic situation. For example: ill directed, badly organized and trained VVS pilots in the early days of Barbarossa. Hopelessly outnumbered and short on fuel Luftwaffe from late 1944 to war’s end.

No less limited are TD’s time and resources. They already made wonders (thanks, guys!) and surely have many surprises in the making, but can we expect to see all WWII scenarios, campaigns, maps and planes? Would love it, but I think not. Also, I understand that many types have been, and will be, selected more with heart and passion that with thoughtful planning.


From these premises, this is my Great Plan.

Set aside long-range types and strategic missions.
Set aside scenarios and maps requiring too many new planes. France 1940 was often mentioned, but would require too many new types: Battle, Lysander, Defiant, Potez 63, Breguet 69, Amiot 143 and 350, Bloch 152, 174, 175 and 210, Caudron 714, LeO 451, just to name some… a dream too good to be true.
Give priority to types that, being missing, prevent realistic missions in existing scenarios. Helldiver on US carrier decks after 1943 is a good example.
Give priority to types that can extend and complete existing career, as a late war Ju88 for LW bomber career.
Give priority to types useful in many roles and scenarios such as the Me410 proposed by IceFire.
Give priority to mid war scenarios, when air superiority was contended on equal terms.
And, finally (for the time being): consider new versions of existing types when easy to be done. A good example is good old I16: bashing existing Type 18 and Type 24 would produce a type 17, a real Type 24 and a Type 28. The last one would require nothing more than changing the name…

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I don't claim to have a wealth of knowledge about Luftwaffe aircraft type utilization, but were not most of the bombers pretty much grounded in the late war period as what little fuel the Luftwaffe had available was deemed more important for use by fighters for air defense?

Pretty much. Also, many bomber pilots were transitioned over to fighter pilot duties. That said, there were some conversions of later bomber types into night fighter variants, and those were used until the war's end. A few were also used as flying launch platforms for V-1 rockets.

[Furio]

After all that ponderous planning in my previous post, I should have added IMHO… And must admit: I have my personal, far from rational favourites: the Whirlwind and the B26 Marauder… Both would need new maps, very unlikely! Sigh…

[Furio]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Pretty much. Also, many bomber pilots were transitioned over to fighter pilot duties. That said, there were some conversions of later bomber types into night fighter variants, and those were used until the war's end. A few were also used as flying launch platforms for V-1 rockets.

Much depend on what type of bomber we are talking of. The Me262 saw service as bomber and some work was done on an Ar234 night fighter version. Sometimes, it’s not easy to see logic and consistency in late war LW planning…