Friday Update, January 27, 2012

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

But you were playing RoF last night though mate, eh? Saw you there myself as you joined!

Oh heck yea!

I love RoF!

Best WWI I haved played since 1991 when Red Baron by Dyanmix came out!

It all depends on my mood.. sometimes I am into WWI sometmes I am into WWII, etc, etc

As for playing it all nite, I wish! But sadly some of us have jobs to goto the next dat!

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by smink1701

IL2 is a business and in business it's all about $$$. They will fix CLoD and the sequel ASAP because they need the income. I am sure the game has generated a fraction of the sales they anticipated because of the problems. They will fix the problems to get the franchise back on track or will go the way of Microsoft and kill their combat flight game division.

A business it may be but I truly believe that this business is driven by people with the same passion for WWII air combat that many of us share. That fact is evident in everything they have produced so far. It is not run by folk who are just out to make a quick buck, I'm certain of that. None of this early release disaster was the result of Luthier's team wanting to make fast money with a hit and run job. The pressure almost certainly came from on high and the continued existence of the new series was probably at stake.

Unfortunately, passion for a product doesn't always equate to an efficient and profitable business. I've been a software developer for close to 20 years now and I've lost count of the number of times I've fallen out with the boss over my desire to make the best possible product set against the very necessary delivery and invoicing requirements of the business. These guys set the bar very high indeed and want to give us the very best air combat experience. Unfortunately the overwhelming complexity and desire to include every feature they had originally envisaged caused massive slippage in the project and an eventual ultimatum from the publisher - that's my take on it anyway.

I think Luthier and team are very well intentioned passionate guys who want to give us the ultimate WWII sim - and will if we give them the chance and support their endeavors. They are certainly not cynical money grabbing business types.

I can also relate to the periods when communication is lacking. When deadlines (I never agreed to) were approaching and my world was just a big pressure cooker overflowing with problems and demands I'd sometimes find myself switching off to the world - just to focus entirely on the problem in hand - ignoring communications and demands for ETAs. Not very professional I know but it was a way of coping when things just became too much. I don't think it should be seen as a snub to customers - just a by-product of an impossibly demanding project and unrealistic deadlines.

They will deliver and it will be the best sim out there - but time is the essential ingredient. Keep smiling.

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Based on what we have seen in this forum,

keeping your customers in the light doesn't help rally folks to thier cause either.

Take this last update for examle, Luither explained how things take longer when you set the bar high, and the customers rally cry was to imply that Luthier is not telling the truth.

Basically 1C can not win, if they don't say anything people complain, if they do say soemthing, people complain.

Well Ace, this time, you got it right on spot !

Salute !

Originally Posted by Sutts

A business it may be but I truly believe that this business is driven by people with the same passion for WWII air combat that many of us share. That fact is evident in everything they have produced so far. It is not run by folk who are just out to make a quick buck, I'm certain of that. None of this early release disaster was the result of Luthier's team wanting to make fast money with a hit and run job. The pressure almost certainly came from on high and the continued existence of the new series was probably at stake.

Unfortunately, passion for a product doesn't always equate to an efficient and profitable business. I've been a software developer for close to 20 years now and I've lost count of the number of times I've fallen out with the boss over my desire to make the best possible product set against the very necessary delivery and invoicing requirements of the business. These guys set the bar very high indeed and want to give us the very best air combat experience. Unfortunately the overwhelming complexity and desire to include every feature they had originally envisaged caused massive slippage in the project and an eventual ultimatum from the publisher - that's my take on it anyway.

I think Luthier and team are very well intentioned passionate guys who want to give us the ultimate WWII sim - and will if we give them the chance and support their endeavors. They are certainly not cynical money grabbing business types.

I can also relate to the periods when communication is lacking. When deadlines (I never agreed to) were approaching and my world was just a big pressure cooker overflowing with problems and demands I'd sometimes find myself switching off to the world - just to focus entirely on the problem in hand - ignoring communications and demands for ETAs. Not very professional I know but it was a way of coping when things just became too much. I don't think it should be seen as a snub to customers - just a by-product of an impossibly demanding project and unrealistic deadlines.

They will deliver and it will be the best sim out there - but time is the essential ingredient. Keep smiling.

And to be really really honest, 1C is our only chance to ever get a very good ww2 bird sim. As far as we can tell for now, no one is working on such a project with accuracy and realism in priority. So we'd better back off a bit and at the same time put pressure to get the most out of what could be our last series with such a great potential....ANd I think that is why we see so much anger and frustration sometimes around here...If 1C fails us, then who will build a new sim up to our standards ? It is a love and hate situation I guess.


Salute !

[Force10]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Based on what we have seen in this forum,

keeping your customers in the light doesn't help rally folks to thier cause either.

Take this last update for examle, Luither explained how things take longer when you set the bar high, and the customers rally cry was to imply that Luthier is not telling the truth.

Basically 1C can not win, if they don't say anything people complain, if they do say soemthing, people complain.

You would call the updates received so far "keeping customers in the light"? Ummm....ok. Vague posts de-void of any real info is not keeping customers in the light my friend. 8 months of this is partially why negativity runs wild. With such little info, it leaves it to the imagination of most to fill in the blanks themselves, and thats not a good thing.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Force10

You would call the updates received so far "keeping customers in the light"? Ummm....ok. Vague posts de-void of any real info is not keeping customers in the light my friend. 8 months of this is partially why negativity runs wild. With such little info, it leaves it to the imagination of most to fill in the blanks themselves, and thats not a good thing.

Honestly. The only way you could imply they aren't keeping us in the light is if you think they are being deceptive. Maybe what you mean to say is that you aren't hearing what you want to hear. Well neither am I, but I have heard what their plan is. I understand it's going to take a while.

If I tell you that to get to 121 Main Street you only need to go straight down THIS road, have I not given you information? I didn't tell you how far to go. To get to your destination of 121 Main Street you don't need to turn left or right. You don't even need to look anywhere else but straight. So am I not giving you clear cut directions?

Sure, you may want to know there's a post office on the next corner and pass that. A gas station is along the way. BTW enjoy Mrs. Lombardo's lovely flower garden and if you come to he Cracker Barell Saloon youve gone too far. But those points aren't germain. I did give you directions though.

The same appies to 1C/CoD, and unless you're implying dishonesty, then there's no reason to believe they aren't communicating - no matter if it's what we want to hear or not, and especially for people who have been here long enough to know better. There's no reason to speculate on anything else until we get to the 121 Main Street/graphics engine overhaul. Once we get there then we'll discuss how to get from 121 Main Street to 36 Newbury Street.

Is it really that difficult to understand? We're all relatively intelligent folks. Maybe patience isn't our strongpoint.

Ultimately I'm sorry you're having issues bad enough that you can't enjoy the game. I've seen many a YouTube clip that shows me that this game has not only a lot of potential but is also enjoyable - though understandably, still flawed.

It is what it is, and sadly we either accept the road map - as basic as it is, and certainly not where we'd like to be at this time - or continue to go around and round in the 1C vestibule while never even making it out to Main Street. B!tchin' about it isn't gonna change a thing.


EDIT: It's not like there's nothing accomplished. They rewrote the sound engine. They've redone the graphics twice. Okay, it intruduced problems. It wasn't the tires causing the problem. It was the wheel bearings. Still not it? Well we were hoping not to have to tear apart the transmission, but it looks like we'll have to.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Robert

Honestly. The only way you could imply they aren't keeping us in the light is if you think they are being deceptive. Maybe what you mean to say is that you aren't hearing what you want to hear.

Force10.. I can't say it any better than what Robert said here so consider my reply to you wrt your qustion to be being equal to Roberts above

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by Robert

Honestly. The only way you could imply they aren't keeping us in the light is if you think they are being deceptive. Maybe what you mean to say is that you aren't hearing what you want to hear. Well neither am I, but I have heard what their plan is. I understand it's going to take a while.

If I tell you that to get to 121 Main Street you only need to go straight down THIS road, have I not given you information? I didn't tell you how far to go. To get to your destination of 121 Main Street you don't need to turn left or right. You don't even need to look anywhere else but straight. So am I not giving you clear cut directions?

Sure, you may want to know there's a post office on the next corner and pass that. A gas station is along the way. BTW enjoy Mrs. Lombardo's lovely flower garden and if you come to he Cracker Barell Saloon youve gone too far. But those points aren't germain. I did give you directions though.

The same appies to 1C/CoD, and unless you're implying dishonesty, then there's no reason to believe they aren't communicating - no matter if it's what we want to hear or not, and especially for people who have been here long enough to know better. There's no reason to speculate on anything else until we get to the 121 Main Street/graphics engine overhaul. Once we get there then we'll discuss how to get from 121 Main Street to 36 Newbury Street.

Is it really that difficult to understand? We're all relatively intelligent folks. Maybe patience isn't our strongpoint.

Ultimately I'm sorry you're having issues bad enough that you can't enjoy the game. I've seen many a YouTube clip that shows me that this game has not only a lot of potential but is also enjoyable - though understandably, still flawed.

It is what it is, and sadly we either accept the road map - as basic as it is, and certainly not where we'd like to be at this time - or continue to go around and round in the 1C vestibule while never even making it out to Main Street. B!tchin' about it isn't gonna change a thing.


EDIT: It's not like there's nothing accomplished. They rewrote the sound engine. They've redone the graphics twice. Okay, it intruduced problems. It wasn't the tires causing the problem. It was the wheel bearings. Still not it? Well we were hoping not to have to tear apart the transmission, but it looks like we'll have to.

What?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

What?

Did I stutter? I thought the analogy was pretty simple.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Robert

Did I stutter? I thought the analogy was pretty simple.

It was good and simple.