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#351
02-24-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
 (sorry, i can't resist  )
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 | AFBs of CloD 2[/URL] |www.pumaszallas.hu i7 7700K 4.8GHz, 32GB Ram 3GHz, MSI GTX 1070 8GB, 27' 1920x1080, W10/64, TrackIR 4Pro, G940 Cliffs of Dover Bugtracker site: share and vote issues here |
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#354
02-24-2012, 11:44 PM
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Tankers
Quote:
Tanker losses to all causes, I have gathered a total of 78(!!) tankers were sunk by mine, U-boot (typically), aircraft and raiders, between September 1939 and November 1940. About 90% of them were British, though there are a couple of Swedish, Dutch, French etc. tankers I have them by name, date, cause of loss, route, cargo, tonnage and so on. For example indeed one tanker that went through Halifax, Inverdagle (9456 tons) was sunk by mines laid by the submarine U 34, with 12 500 tons of avgas - about a month worth consumption of 100 octane, though I am not sure what grade it actually carried - on the 16 January 1940. The first one was Regent Tiger, with about 15 000 tons of oil products, five days after Britain declared war on Germany. The worst blow was possibly the sinking of 13 000 ton San Fernando by the fabled U-47 on the 21 June 1940 (U-43 got another one on the same day). This one alone carried 18 000 tons of oil product that never reached Liverpool. Alltogether 558,260 GRT of tankers went to Davy Jones locker, by the end of November 1940, along with 385,957 tons of oil product. Half of that, ca. 243 000 GRT worth of tankers were sunk by the end May 1940. Fuel oil was the greatest loss, 116 000 tons of it went down with tankers (luckily, no green peace back then). Avgas seems quite untypical as a load, but in the end it didn't really matter, because if a tanker sunk with diesel oil, or even empty, the next one had to haul about its cargo again. Tanker losses were serious, unfortunately.
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Il-2Bugtracker: Feature #200: Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 Il-2Bugtracker: Bug #415: Spitfire Mk I, Ia, and Mk II: Stability and Control http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415 Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! http://kurfurst.org 
Last edited by Kurfürst; 02-24-2012 at 11:56 PM. |
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#355
02-25-2012, 12:20 AM
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Oh, and as for that Australian paper used so extensively by Barbi, here is its title, as used by Barbi as a reference in a Wikipedia article:
"Fuel Supplies to The British Empire And It's Commonwealth; Outlook, Ramifications and Projections For The Prosecution Of The War, February 1941, Australian War Memorial Archives." This came from: Revision as of 08:39, 16 July 2008 (edit) Kurfürst (talk | contribs) (Revised section on 100 octane fuel with more reliable and referenced information; noted fact that the German Air Force also used 100 octane fuel in the Battle. Better sectioning. Added armament info.) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=225978800 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ai...00_octane_fuel Barbi's explanation of the origins and importance of this paper: "The document which relealed the details of 100 octane use in the BoB by the RAF was a document, copied to the Australian Military Commission in England in February 1941, by Roll Royce to Lord Beaverbrook outlining past, current and proposed changes to the Merlin; and factors that affect it's performance. Its a British-made document, prepeared for the highest circles. McFarland, Pugh, Hart, Perret, Lumsden and even Churchill have all quoted parts from the report." Kurfürst (talk) 10:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC) Now, in 2008 I inquired of the AWM whether they had such a paper, giving this specific title, referencing Beaverbrook, Rolls-Royce, the Australian Military Commission etc etc...The AWM's response was that they had no such paper. Just googled, yahooed, binged "Australian Military Commission England WW2" nada - no such organisation appeared to even exist, but I'll cross reference with Australia's Official War Histories to see if there is mention of it there. I've also just submitted a search inquiry to the AWM: "I am making an inquiry as to whether the AWM Archives have a paper entitled: "Fuel Supplies to The British Empire And It's Commonwealth; Outlook, Ramifications and Projections For The Prosecution Of The War, February 1941' This was a paper written by Rolls-Royce and used by Lord Beaverbrook to address the supply of aviation fuel to Australia via the Australian Military Commission in Britain in February 1941. I am sorry that there appears to be no AWM reference number, so, hopefully, the title and key references will help." (Question # RCIS34105 Request type Reference Other Question ) I am sanguine that they will indeed find this paper and clear this matter up. |
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#356
02-25-2012, 12:22 AM
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wouldn't be the first time
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Theres a reason for instrumenting a plane for test..
That being a pilots's 'perception' of what is going on can be very different from what is 'actually' going on. |
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#357
02-25-2012, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
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#358
02-25-2012, 12:32 AM
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Vessel Pdt. Tons Built Cargo Notes
SC 21 AMSCO (Br) 72 4,627 1920 Crude Oil SC3 NOREG (Nor) 43 7,605 1931 Fuel Oil SC4 SUDERHOLM (Nor) 73 4,908 1917 Fuel Oil WOENSDRECHT (Du) 52 4,668 1926 Avgas RETURNED SC5 WOENSDRECHT (Du) 81 4,668 1926 Avgas SC6 STANMOUNT (Br) 43 4,468 1914 Crude Oil SC9 GLOXINIA (Br) 61 3,336 1920 Lub Oil SC14 SOLSTEN (Nor) 42 5,379 1929 Petrol SC15 TAHCHEE (Br) 52 6,508 1914 Fuel Oil The above are ships in SC convoys carrying petro gargoes for 1939 and 1940 The below are ships in HX convoys carrying petro cargoes just in 1939. HX LANGUEDOC (Fr) * 9,512 1937 crude oil Le Havre HX3 ONTARIOLITE (Br) 63 8,889 1925 crude oil Le Havre HX4 ELONA (Br) 61 6,192 1936 lub oil HX5 SAN ERNESTO (Br) 51 8,078 1939 petrol VACLITE (Br) 32 5,026 1928 lub oil HX6 CADILLAC (Br) 72 12,062 1917 PETROL D L HARPER (Br) 54 12,223 1933 CRUDE OIL DARONIA (Br) 47 8,139 1939 PETROL ECLIPSE (Br) 62 9,767 1931 CRUDE OIL HAVRE F J WOLFE (Pan) 53 12,190 1932 CRUDE OIL FRANCHE-COMTE (Br) 75 9,314 1936 PETROL BORDEAUX LUSTROUS (Br) 95 6,156 1927 CRUDE OIL PAUILLAC NARRAGANSETT (Br) 45 10,389 1936 PETROL PEDER BOGEN (Br) 91 9,741 1925 DIESO PENELOPE (Pan) 66 6,559 1925 CRUDE OIL RETURNED ROBERT F HAND (Br) 94 12,197 1933 PARAFFIN SAN CALISTO (Br) 81 8,010 1937 PARAFFIN SCOTTISH HEATHER (Br) 63 7,087 1928 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE VOCO (Br) 23 5,090 1925 LUB OIL HX7 EL MIRLO (Br) 42 8,092 1930 CRUDE OIL HORN SHELL (Br) 81 8,272 1931 FUEL OIL REGINOLITE (Br) 73 9,069 1926 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE SARANAC (Br) 23 12,049 1918 PETROL ROCAS (Br) 63 7,406 1927 FUEL OIL HX8 ADELLEN (Br) 83 7,984 1930 FUEL OIL COWRIE (Br) 52 8,197 1931 DIESO, FUEL OIL HEINRICH VON REIDEMANN (Pan) 83 11,020 1930 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE LUXOR (Br) 74 6,554 1930 AVGAS LE HAVRE MIRALDA (Br) 51 8,013 1936 DIESO, CRUDE OIL PELLICULA (Br) 54 6,254 1936 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE PERSEPHONE (Pan) 64 8,426 1925 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE PRESIDENT SERGENT (Fr) 72 5,344 1923 CRUDE OIL DUNKIRK SAN CONRADO (Br) 34 7,982 1936 PARAFFIN SAN FLORENTINO (Br) 24 12,842 1919 FUEL OIL VICTOLITE (Br) 53 11,410 1928 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE HX9 ARLETTA (Br) 22 4,870 1925 PETROL CERINTHUS (Br) 42 3,878 1930 LUB OIL CHARLES PRATT (Pan) 94 8,982 1916 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE CONCH (Br) 63 8,376 1931 PETROL DILOMA (Br) 34 8,146 1939 PETROL, PARAFFIN HARRY G SEIDEL (Pan) 83 10,354 1930 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE REGENT PANTHER (Br) 61 9,556 1937 PETROL SAN ADOLFO (Br) 64 7,365 1935 FUEL OIL SAN CIRILO (Br) 62 8,012 1937 PETROL SAN FABIAN (Br) 71 13,031 1922 FUEL OIL SAN TIBURCIO (Br) 33 5,995 1921 GAS OIL SAN UBALDO (Br) 23 5,999 1921 FUEL OIL VENETIA (Br) 73 5,728 1927 PETROL HX10 BRITISH WORKMAN (Br) 82 6,994 1922 PARAFFIN C O STILLMAN (Pan) 72 13,006 1928 CRUDE OIL CARONI RIVER (Br) 64 7,807 1928 DIESO CLIONA (Br) 93 8,375 1931 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE GOLD SHELL (Br) 74 8,208 1931 CRUDE OIL LUNULA (Br) 12 6,363 1927 AVGAS AN GASPAR (Br) 21 12,910 1921 FUEL OIL SCOTTISH CHIEF (Br) 94 7,006 1928 CRUDE OIL PAUILLAC VANCOLITE (Br) 83 11,404 1928 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE VICTOR ROSS (Br) 63 12,247 1933 FUEL OIL LE HAVRE HX11 ALDERSDALE (Br) 83 8,402 1937 FUEL OIL ATHELVISCOUNT (Br) 65 8,882 1929 FUEL OIL BRITISH UNION (Br) 92 6,987 1927 FUEL OIL CASPIA (Br) 52 6,018 1928 PETROL COMANCHEE (Br) 71 6,837 1936 LUB OIL EL GRILLO (Br) 93 7,264 1922 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE COTTISH MAIDEN (Br) 95 6,993 1921 CRUDE OIL DONGES ARAND (Br) 53 6,023 1927 AVGAS HX12 ARNDALE (Br) 34 8,296 1937 FUEL OIL ATHELCHIEF (Br) 94 10,000 1939 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE ATHELPRINCESS (Br) 81 8,882 1929 CRUDE OIL DUNKIRK FREDERICK S FALES (Br) 64 10,525 1939 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE GEORGE H JONES (Pan) 53 6,914 1919 CRUDE OIL JAMES McGEE (Pan) 84 9,859 1917 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE MACTRA (Br) 74 6,193 1936 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE MONTROLITE (Br) 63 11,309 1926 CRUDE OIL SAN FELIX (Br) 73 13,037 1921 FUEL OIL HX13 BEACONHILL (Pan) 42 6,941 1919 AVGAS CHAMA (Br) 73 8,077 1938 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE ERODONA (Br) 74 6,207 1937 LUB OIL AN ELISEO (Br) 43 8,042 1939 GAS OIL SAN FERNANDO (Br) 64 13,056 1919 CRUDE OIL LE HAVRE SAN GERARDO (Br) 32 12,915 1929 FUEL OIL SCHUYLKILL (Br) 52 8,965 1928 PETROL SOCONY (Br) 63 4,404 1936 AVGAS SOLARIUM (Br) 44 6,239 1936 PETROL W C TEAGLE (Br) 62 9,552 1917 CRUDE OIL SOUTHAMPTON from http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/hague/index.html |
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#359
02-25-2012, 12:41 AM
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1939:
Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT) Sep39 48/178,621 Oct39 33/156,156 Nov39 27/72,721 Dec39 39/101,823 Tot39 147 (36.75/month)/509,321 (127,330.25/month) British merchant ship construction capacity from 1939-1941 did not exceed 1.2 million GRT per year. US merchant ship construction in 1939 was 0.242 million GRT. Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas) Aug39 19/2 Sep39 3/0 Oct39 13/3 Nov39 10/1/1 Dec39 5/1/1 Tot39 50/7/2 (an average of 10 patrols per month and 14% lost) Thus for 1939, an average of 2.94 ships were sunk per patrol and one U-Boat was lost per 21 ships sunk (note that throughout these averages will be slightly inflated since they do not include the minor contribution of the Italian submarine fleet.) 1940: Allied and Neutral ship tonnage sunk by German and Italian submarines (#ships, GRT) Jan40 53/163,029 Feb40 50/182,369 Mar40 26/69,826 Apr40 6/30,927 May40 14/61,635 Jun40 66/375,069 Jul40 41/301,975 Aug40 56/288,180 Sep40 60/288,180 Oct40 66/363,267 Nov40 36/181,695 Dec40 46/256,310 Tot40 520 (43.33/month)/2,462,867 (205,238.91/month) US merchant ship construction for 1940 was about 0.5 million GRT. Number of U-Boat patrols (combat patrols only, does not include tanker/resupply missions)/losses/aborts prior to contact in principle theaters (North Atlantic, South Atlantic, Indian Ocean, and the Americas) Jan40 8/2 Feb40 10/3 Mar40 10/2 Apr40 19/3 May40 8/0/2 Jun40 18/3/1 Jul40 4/0 Aug40 16/2/1 Sep40 12/0 Oct40 13/2 Nov40 14/1 Dec40 6/0 Tot40 138/18/3 (an average of 11.5 patrols per month and 13% lost) |
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#360
02-25-2012, 02:18 AM
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Thanks Al: I'll go through the http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ database as well and find out how many tankers and other ships carrying avgas were destroyed in 1940 - last time I looked a couple of years ago I could only find one Inverdagle (9456 tons) which, as Barbi mentions, was sunk by a mine in (I think) the Bristol Channel? I know that some tankers diverted to France up to May or June 1940, accounting for some of the 100 Octane fuel used there.
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