The new bomb fuzing needs to be an option.

[_RAAF_Firestorm]

The _RAAF_Squadron has spent the last three Thursday night Training sessions dedicated to exploring the new realism features in 4.10 including bomb fusing, rocket dispersion, wind effects on flight and ordnance, radio navigation etc. We generally feel that the work done to the Sim is of very high standard and has been a marked step forward in improving the already high level of immersion this Sim offers. Our hats off and gracious thanks to everyone involved.

A big part of the training regime was workshoping new methods of ordnance delivery to account for the fusing time of two seconds and last night's training focused on skip bombing. Following some experimentation and online trials, we believe we've had a successful resolution of new skip bombing methods and we generally consider the fusing time feature to be an improvement in immersion for a number of reasons:

1. Our resolved methods seem to match those anecdotally documented.
2. The difficulty level of skip bombing now resembles what we would expect from such a task.
3. The 2sec fuse terminating once the bomb hits water rather than hull is not an issue for us given item 1 above, resolved within Sim limitations.
4. Due to the increased difficulty, dive bombing and torpedos perhaps now offer higher success rates, in 4.09 this was not the case.

We feel that item 3 above is not ideally realistic, but an improvement nonetheless and certainly not a deal breaker. The concerns shown by all here should of course not be discounted and TD's decision to add this as a realism option in the next patch is commendable.

Having said that, we have concluded that even as it stands, successful skip bombing, just like dive bombing, level bombing, take off and landing, is simply a matter of practice. For us, learning something new has been overwhelmingly rewarding and we look forward to more of the same.

[F19_Klunk]

g00d feedback and well put.

[Wolf_Rider]

well put, Firey

[JHartikka]

Pilots Wished Bomb SALVO Fix - Got a Forced Delay 410m Fuse Instead!

Is strategic bombing now the only allowed bombing style with the introduction of the 4.10m new level bombing fuse? Yes, it seems that the low bombing tactical arts are now practically denied..! For strategic 'terror bombings' that fuse is ok but I keep wondering what the veteran ground battle pilots during the war would have said if they had been ordered to use the 4.10m fuse..? I guess they would not have been polite with their response! ;D

The IL2 sim used to have very finely made simulation for low bombing modes prior to 410m! The bomb actually bounced or slided in these simulations on the ground like the wartime expert low bombing 'jabo' pilots performed it, for instance!

As a virtual bomber pilot familiar with real history of delay low bombing styles like jabo / slide / bounce bombing it is very regrettable that the 410m now denies us these most exciting and skill demanding bombing modes.


Crew Switchable Safety Delay

A story I recalled from Finnish wartime recollections about German bombs electric fuse. The big German bombs were known to have an electric fuse with safety delay option. It was rather simple yet versatile.

It could be used in automatic 'safety delay mode' (like the forced 410m fuse) or manually in no safety delay mode (quite unlike the forced 410m fuse). It even allowed arming and disarming bomb and switching safety delay on or off during flight.

I have understood that these electric fuses were used with bombers having crew more than on person so the one responsible for bomb release could control bomb arming and disarming. The cases I have collected from my country about small bombs like fighter bombs indicate that these had no safety delay.


Electric Fuse Circuit Description

There were two capacitors in the German electric bomb fuse circuit. The first capacitor was the one charged from aircraft. It was connected to second actual fuse capacitor through a delay resistor between them.

When capacitor nr. 1 got a charge from a connector attached to the bomb, it would start charge the nr. 2 capacitor through the resistor which slowed the charging and thus caused an arming delay or safety delay. I guess the 410m 2 s safety fuse is related to those bombs having this electric fuse arming mode?

Knowing the capacitor 1 - resistor - capacitor 2 - electric fuse circuit we can now understand the operating modes of this German electric bomb fuse:


Electric Fuse Operating Modes

1. Automatic Safety Delay: When used as automatic, an electric connector attached through a swiveled arm to the bomb would give the capacitor nr. 1 electric charge shot just before the connector attached to a swiveled arm would be ripped off from the falling bomb. Now the bomb would be armed in free fall after the actual fusecapacitor nr. 2 would be charged through the resistor causing the automatic arming safety delay.

2. Manual arm and disarm from onboard: If the bomber staff person responsible for bombing gives the bomb a charge shot prior to releasing a bomb, it will arm itself in the alleged time and when released later, it will drop with no safety delay. He could also decide to disarm the bomb by shortcircuiting the bomb arming circuit. When shortcircuited, the arming capacitor nr 2 would bleed empty from charge through the delay resistor in about the time of the safety delay and the bomb would be disarmed again.

We see that this kind of electric bomb fuse circuit would allow the bomber crew to arm and disarm any bomb connected to onboard arming circuit and release the bomb either disarmed or armed. Further, this bomb arming circuit gave the crew an option to decide whether to use safety delay or not..! Alas, we virtual bomber pilots were not allowed to decide setting safety delay on or off with the rather incorrect 410m fuse...


Regards,

- J. Hartikka -

Finland

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by JHartikka

Pilots Wished Bomb SALVO Fix - Got a Forced Delay 410m Fuse Instead!

Is strategic bombing now the only allowed bombing style with the introduction of the 4.10m new level bombing fuse? Yes, it seems that the low bombing tactical arts are now practically denied..! For strategic 'terror bombings' that fuse is ok but I keep wondering what the veteran ground battle pilots during the war would have said if they had been ordered to use the 4.10m fuse..? I guess they would not have been polite with their response! ;D

The IL2 sim used to have very finely made simulation for low bombing modes prior to 410m! The bomb actually bounced or slided in these simulations on the ground like the wartime expert low bombing 'jabo' pilots performed it, for instance!

As a virtual bomber pilot familiar with real history of delay low bombing styles like jabo / slide / bounce bombing it is very regrettable that the 410m now denies us these most exciting and skill demanding bombing modes.


Crew Switchable Safety Delay

A story I recalled from Finnish wartime recollections about German bombs electric fuse. The big German bombs were known to have an electric fuse with safety delay option. It was rather simple yet versatile.

It could be used in automatic 'safety delay mode' (like the forced 410m fuse) or manually in no safety delay mode (quite unlike the forced 410m fuse). It even allowed arming and disarming bomb and switching safety delay on or off during flight.

I have understood that these electric fuses were used with bombers having crew more than on person so the one responsible for bomb release could control bomb arming and disarming. The cases I have collected from my country about small bombs like fighter bombs indicate that these had no safety delay.


Electric Fuse Circuit Description

There were two capacitors in the German electric bomb fuse circuit. The first capacitor was the one charged from aircraft. It was connected to second actual fuse capacitor through a delay resistor between them.

When capacitor nr. 1 got a charge from a connector attached to the bomb, it would start charge the nr. 2 capacitor through the resistor which slowed the charging and thus caused an arming delay or safety delay. I guess the 410m 2 s safety fuse is related to those bombs having this electric fuse arming mode?

Knowing the capacitor 1 - resistor - capacitor 2 - electric fuse circuit we can now understand the operating modes of this German electric bomb fuse:


Electric Fuse Operating Modes

1. Automatic Safety Delay: When used as automatic, an electric connector attached through a swiveled arm to the bomb would give the capacitor nr. 1 electric charge shot just before the connector attached to a swiveled arm would be ripped off from the falling bomb. Now the bomb would be armed in free fall after the actual fusecapacitor nr. 2 would be charged through the resistor causing the automatic arming safety delay.

2. Manual arm and disarm from onboard: If the bomber staff person responsible for bombing gives the bomb a charge shot prior to releasing a bomb, it will arm itself in the alleged time and when released later, it will drop with no safety delay. He could also decide to disarm the bomb by shortcircuiting the bomb arming circuit. When shortcircuited, the arming capacitor nr 2 would bleed empty from charge through the delay resistor in about the time of the safety delay and the bomb would be disarmed again.

We see that this kind of electric bomb fuse circuit would allow the bomber crew to arm and disarm any bomb connected to onboard arming circuit and release the bomb either disarmed or armed. Further, this bomb arming circuit gave the crew an option to decide whether to use safety delay or not..! Alas, we virtual bomber pilots were not allowed to decide setting safety delay on or off with the rather incorrect 410m fuse...


Regards,

- J. Hartikka -

Finland

True, because some feel everyone must fly bombers as they wish, or not at all, and there are enough "Fan boys" that welcome that, as harder must be more real....maybe they should implement that shots fired from closer than a 1000m automatically have no effect, that will certainly be a lot harder so by the fan boys logic that must be more realistic.
I would forget the topic as CoD is coming and hopefully geeks will not be allowed to force their silly flying techniques onto others.

[JtD]

It's not correct that German fuses allowed modes that came completely without arming. At least the 10 most common fuses did not, and I've never heard anything that would indicate the Germans were that stupid.

It is true that there was an option to have the fuse set off the bomb without any delay. This is exactly what you can set up in the arming screen.

I would also like to point out that the typical low level attacks as done in WW2 are still possible. It is true, however, that some special cases cannot be recreated at the moment.
---
Wutz, you're embarrassing.

[Sokol1]

The _RAAF_Squadron has spent the last..

Well said!

Sokol1

[JHartikka]

Originally Posted by Wutz

True, because some feel everyone must fly bombers as they wish, or not at all, and there are enough "Fan boys" that welcome that, as harder must be more real...

Indeed Wutz, part of the IL2 community shows signs to switching from the rather truthful flight sim to a common fancy computer game with imaginary rules they can change by their own liking.

However, historical facts still remain facts. Bombers were armed with fuses and bombs that suited best for each mission. Throughout the war, means of hitting enemy were constantly improved to be easier rather than more difficult - that is quite selfevident, isn't it..?

Ignoring history is of course allowed, but doing so may make people behind such unrealistic mods appear rather restricted or even ignorant.


A JU-88 Veteran About Bomb Fuses

In a recent history gathering I met Mr. Kusti Lehmusvuori. In spite of being almost 90 he was in very brisk shape with lucid mind and memories. He served as a bomber radio operator and gunner for some 55 war flights in Finnish Blenheim and JU-88 crews.

He described the electrical fuse circuit of German JU-88 bombs quite as I had earlier heard about it and written to the message above. He also added that the bomb fuse capacitors were charged from onboard batteries that resembled the anode batteries of the radios of those days. Bombs were of course launched one by one and not as pairs like with IL2 sim.

We also discussed about airplane radio operator work of those days with the rather unreliable Marconi radios of Blenheims and the advanced FUG 10 radio gear of JU-88 that he descrobed as being 'from another planet' as compared to earlier radios. When asked, he even remembered accurately the 'Gibson Girl' emergency transmitter placement onboard..! However, I guess further writing about early aircraft radio operation and navigation practises might be a bit off topic in this thread so I save that info for later discussions.


Regards,

- J. Hartikka -

History Addict
Finland

Original wartime photos on messages:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...d=1#post210220 and
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...782#post213782 and
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...588#post216588

Bomber veteran Kusti Lehmusvuori in a newspaper article with photos of the restored motor of the ill fated JU-88 nr JK-254:
http://yle.fi/alueet/pohjois-karjala...tml?origin=rss

[jtkfox1970]

why don't you use the 4.09 patch. you don't have to use the 4.10 patch if you don't like it.

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by jtkfox1970

why don't you use the 4.09 patch. you don't have to use the 4.10 patch if you don't like it.

That is what plenty are already doing. You just need to look at the WoP servers, in the beginning the Spits vs 109s 4.10 was full now there are seldom more than four players. Many have dumped 4.10 and gone back to 4.09.
But I think a fix from UP will be soon out for 4.10.