4.11 - AI debugging

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by FC99

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

It's probably too late for 4.12, but for future patches, AI planes shouldn't enter the landing pattern if there's an enemy plane within sight, unless they have no other option other than landing - low on fuel, badly damaged, have wounded crew aboard or dangerous weather conditions closing in.

Just leaving the landing pattern when directly attacked leaves planes at too much of a tactical disadvantage as enemies maneuver into attack position - dispersed formations, low altitude, low speeds and predictable behavior.

In the future:

Escorts should respond aggressively to drive enemies away from airfields, not just protect the planes they are escorting. They should immediately go into attack formations when enemy planes are sighted.

Veteran escorts should use intelligent tactics to engage the enemy - for example, not just attacking piecemeal from below but getting above the enemy and attacking as a unit.

In the presence of enemy planes, bombers should form (or reform) flight- or squadron-sized defensive formations and loosely orbit their airfield at altitude if there is no other place to land, or if there are escorts to drive the enemy away. Otherwise, they should divert to a suitable friendly airfield where there are no enemy planes present.

Transport and auxiliary planes should always flee - possibly orbiting well away from the airfield - or divert to another airfield if there are any enemy planes in the area.

Two exceptions to the above:

1) Mission builders should have the ability to control - or override - landing behavior. That allows for "ambush" scenarios or situations where a particular plane must land, or to allow planes to divert to a specific airfield. It could also set up situations where one section of planes lands while another section engages the enemy.

Mission builders should also be able to set distances at which landing planes begin to react to enemies - both height and ground distance. They should also be able to set triggers so that landing planes react in different ways to different types of planes.

That way planes might still land normally if there is just a single enemy recce plane at high-altitude over their base, but in another way if there is a formation of enemy bombers coming in.

2) If there is radar in the game, ground control/radar ops could give orders to formations to behave in a certain way. For example, even if a formation can't see incoming enemy, ground control could still have them divert/resume defensive formation/attack.

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

1) Mission builders should have the ability to control - or override - landing behavior. That allows for "ambush" scenarios or situations where a particular plane must land, or to allow planes to divert to a specific airfield. It could also set up situations where one section of planes lands while another section engages the enemy.

Planes set to low fuel (EG 2% or so) should show the "land under any circumstances" behaviour. So Pursuivants demands could be archieved and simultanuously they dont loiter around until crash when you wait near the runway to start your Mission. I tried this on several occasions at the start of a mission, but you need a large airfield to force land AI planes. Otherwise they crash when at least ran out fuel.

[KG26_Alpha]

Hmmm

Im sure Im amongst many mission builders that over the years have had missions ruined by changes made to ai behaviour.

would it not be possible to make the changes selectable rather than global to keep the mission builders intentions?

thanks

[maxim42]

I am not sure if it was mentioned, but when I create a quick mission (for example: two planes vs two) and when my group defeat the enemy group, my AI friend has got a strange behaviour. Instead of getting back home with me, the 'AI friend' seems to consider me as his enemy (AI is getting away from me doing some strange aerobatic maneuvers). But I have never noticed the friend AI shooting me, just getting away. Greetings

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by maxim42

I am not sure if it was mentioned, but when I create a quick mission (for example: two planes vs two) and when my group defeat the enemy group, my AI friend has got a strange behaviour. Instead of getting back home with me, the 'AI friend' seems to consider me as his enemy (AI is getting away from me doing some strange aerobatic maneuvers). But I have never noticed the friend AI shooting me, just getting away. Greetings

I'll take a guess as to what is happening to you. If YOU are the lead in a 2-plane flight and YOU try and follow your wingman, it will look like he wants to get away from you. In fact, he DOES want to get away from you so he can get behind you (as he was programmed).

I'm sure that is what you are experiencing. Otherwise, I have never seen what you have described.

Aviar

[maxim42]

Originally Posted by Aviar

I'll take a guess as to what is happening to you. If YOU are the lead in a 2-plane flight and YOU try and follow your wingman, it will look like he wants to get away from you. In fact, he DOES want to get away from you so he can get behind you (as he was programmed).

I'm sure that is what you are experiencing. Otherwise, I have never seen what you have described.

Aviar

Thank you for the answer. You might be right and thank's for the explanation!

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Mundschenk

In my opinion, if one plane flying in the landing circuit is attacked, or even better shortly before it is attacked, all fighters in the circuit should stop circling and engage the attackers. Maybe except those who are already preparing to land.

Gives me another idea: could it be possible to issue a radio command to the own AA protection of the airfield to prevent them from firing? I can't count the times I was shot down by friendly AA guns while closely chasing a fighter over my own airfield...

Sounds sensible, but don't count on it. Back then pilots didn't have comms with AA guns. For a fighter pilot to issue an order to ground AA guns batteries when and who they should fire at isn't terribly realistic, to say the least. However, it would be nice to see the AAA take things a bit easy when a friendly aircraft is within very close proximity to the guy they were shooting at.

Of course, like everything else, a lot depended on the individual gun crew's skill and experience levels, and they just might keep right on firing anyways, or even mistake you as an enemy aircraft and shoot at you until someone realizes the mistake and stops...

Happened a lot.

[X-Raptor]

Hi, 1st I congrats to all Daidalos Team for the work about 1946 they are offering to improve this game still.

just my observation: would be possible to stop A.I. behaviour that we can see many times A.I. climb almost vertically for a long time gaining altitude and JUST EXACTLY at the moment of stall they level the nose and then continue to fly orizontally ..as nothing happened .. THIS is really annoying and innatural .. and frustrating.. because A.I. using - I see OFTEN- this manevuer A.I. make a lot of cheat:
1) it use this quite innatural manover to evade from enemy (human or A.i.)
2) It use often this manover to jump from high to hit you or other A.I. planes.

Please can DAIDALOS TEAM LOOK to solve this?.

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by maxim42

I am not sure if it was mentioned, but when I create a quick mission (for example: two planes vs two) and when my group defeat the enemy group, my AI friend has got a strange behaviour. Instead of getting back home with me, the 'AI friend' seems to consider me as his enemy (AI is getting away from me doing some strange aerobatic maneuvers). But I have never noticed the friend AI shooting me, just getting away. Greetings

What happens if you order him "TAB-1-8-2" to get back in formation and to follow you leading back home or "TAB-2-9-3" back to home base and follow him back to home base?

[SPAD-1949]

Originally Posted by X-Raptor

Hi, 1st I congrats to all Daidalos Team for the work about 1946 they are offering to improve this game still.

just my observation: would be possible to stop A.I. behaviour that we can see many times A.I. climb almost vertically for a long time gaining altitude and JUST EXACTLY at the moment of stall they level the nose and then continue to fly orizontally ..as nothing happened .. THIS is really annoying and innatural .. and frustrating.. because A.I. using - I see OFTEN- this manevuer A.I. make a lot of cheat:
1) it use this quite innatural manover to evade from enemy (human or A.i.)
2) It use often this manover to jump from high to hit you or other A.I. planes.

Please can DAIDALOS TEAM LOOK to solve this?.

Im an offliner and I've never seen this bahaviour.
Is this an online occurance?
AI cheats in other ways all through the enhancments of AI behaviour changes, but usually if they vert up until stall, they drop their noses and vert down until regain of controll.
Eventually it just looks alike, when you head onto them with intention for a kill lacking energy and starve in sight of them without proper situational awareness.
It sometimes looks líke that.
Eventually a energy superior AI opponent with good Situational awareness tricks you out, if he recognizes, that you are about to stall and breaks his vert up towards horizontal flight, because he has enough margin for that maneuver, but it must not look like a sharp hook.
Rather a mor or less slight curve.
Bf109s can do that if you sit in a mosca.