anybody know anything about this sim?

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by *DZR*Chimanov

I had written a long reply; but then i found out that theres no sense to be dragged by a user who doesnt even know distances between Argentina territorial coasts and Islas Malvinas (at least check a map before posting if you want to be taken seriously)... not to mention childish comments as dividing goberments/countries between the bad ones and the good ones like you can see in any Hollywood class C movie.

Some governments are worse than others. Which good and is which bad is a particular person's opinion, and probably depends upon that person's political views. I personally would not say any country is bad. If that reference is to my list of island countries that would be owned by other countries if proximity meant ownership, I never made any judgemental remarks about whether the countries concerned were good or bad. I merely made the observation that the island nations would lose their independence. That would be a bad thing in my opinion, and predictably but not necessarily in the opinions of the citizens of those island nations.

This is a forum related to flight simulation, any political frustration or nationalism should be left aside.

My initial remark was intended to be a comment on the apparent non-inclusion of Harriers in the flyable aircraft. I understand that they are difficult to model due to the vectorable exhausts, but in my view any complete simulation of this particular conflict would need to attempt them.

I accept that my view of who was right and wrong in the conflict is an opinion, and that other opinions may differ, however my opinion is what I will act on so far as whether or not I will purchase this game is concerned, as I would expect others to act on their own opinions.

[Antoninus]

The harrier is flyable and you can play both sides.

http://www.thunder-works.com/features.htm

Jet Thunder will feature:

- 6 flyable aircraft models, with accurate cockpits, onboard systems, weapons and performance. They're as follows:

* McDonnel Douglas A-4 Skyhawk (Argentine A-4B, A-4C and carrier-based A-4Q)
* AMD Mirage IIIEA (and israeli-built Mirage export model IAI Nesher/Dagger)
* FMA IA-58 Pucará
* BAe Sea Harrier FRS.1
* BAe Harrier Gr.3
* AMD Super Etendard
(detailed information about the aircraft types listed above will be available soon.)



- Campaign based in the historical events of 1982, with a complete Air Order of Battle featuring more than 50 different AI aircraft.



- Historically accurate Naval Order of Battle, featuring more than 40 different ship models (frigates, cruisers, aircraft carriers, container ships, LCUs, submarines...)



- Complex terrain engine enabling high quality textures for low altitude flight feeling as well as good high altitude visualization, with aprox. 70% of the argentinean Patagonia region as well as an high quality terrain mesh of the Falkland/Malvinas islands (based on accurate SRTM data).



- Land-based air operations in the following airbases:

BAM-Trelew
BAM-Comodoro Rivadavia
BAM-San Julian
BAM-Santa Cruz
BAM-Río Gallegos
BAM-Río Grande
BAM-Malvinas
BAM-Cóndor
BAM-Calderón
(detailed information about the above airbases will be available here soon.)



- Carrier-based air operations in the following aircraft carriers:

HMS Hermes
HMS Invincible
ARA 25 de Mayo
(detailed information about the above vessels will be available here soon.)





- Complex/realistic operation and limits of the onboard radar of the Sea Harrier FRS.1 (Ferranti Blue Fox, based on the Seaspray radar used by naval Lynx helicopters), also of the Agave radar of the Super Etendard, and finally, the Thomson-CSF Cyrano II of the Mirage IIIEA. The other flyables have no radar, but their equipment will be fully represented (gunsight, navigation, RWR, weapon deployment, trim, engine/fuel operation).



- Full V/STOL flight model for the Harrier/Sea Harrier, realistically based on vectored thrust vector, rotating within the limits of the real plane's nozzle system, not the augmented flap performance as seen in other flight sims.



- Range of single missions, based on historical missions, on either argentine or british side. Full Mission Editor will be available so players can make their own missions and share with other players.



- Complex Air-Sea-Battle campaign system: based in a "commanding AI" that will give orders to naval, air and ground AI units based in the current tactical situation, the player will fly in an enviroment that may change unpredicably, so, although based on historical order of battle, equipment and resources/logistics, the outcome of the campaign can be different.



- Multiplayer modes: dogfight room, cooperative, and online-campaign.


- Fully scalable realism options, for a less steeper learning curve: no stalls/spins, no crash, simple radar, unlimited weapons, no wind/turbulence, missile effectiveness slider, no cockpit, and others.


- Range of training missions for each aircraft, focused on main aspects for each plane: twin-prop flight (Pucará), V/STOL operation (Harrier), carrier operations (Super Etendard, A-4, Sea Harrier), supersonic flight (Mirage).


- Possibility of inclusion of new, accurate "in-house made" flyables, depending on interest (Vulcan bomber or Aermacchi MB-339 for example) in a later expansion pack.


- Moddability: aircraft paints can be customized, and tools will be available to create new terrains and campaigns - for example, american A-4's carrier-based in a Midway Class carrier (instead of the ARA 25 de Mayo) for a Southwest Asian campaign mod.*

* This covers the single-player aspect; we're still pondering about the best balance to avoid problems with the multiplayer aspect.

[Ctrl E]

i seem to have sparked fierce political debate here. i really just meant to say it looks like a great sim. reckon it could easily be modded for a vietnam or middle east conflict senario.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Antoninus

The harrier is flyable and you can play both sides.

Good, that does sound a lot better.

[Brain32]

I for one can't wait for the game to come out, demo is promised soon. Now how cool is that, there are waaaay to little demos theese days...

I agree playing both sides sounds better, not for the previously said reasons, but simply for variety, I personally never could understand the one side only complex.I mean OK, so I understand Brits might have a problem on Flaklands due to recent nature of that conflict, but whenever somebody throws up sillyness like that in WW2 context, especially those born 20+ years after it I can only picture them as primitive and shortsighted hillbillies.


BTW: Strictly for geographical facts:
distance Arg-Malvinas=~320miles
distance GBr-Falklands=~7620miles!!!

Personally I don't see what was it worth in strategical and economical sense to mobilize nearly entire army for a few square miles of grass and a couple of sheeps 7600 miles away from your own border. Maybe it was "Hey we want to retain the image of powerfull country regardless the cost, either material or in human lives". The vanity strikes again...

But ofcourse when Russia cleans up mess on it's own border then they are called the bad guys - now that's really weak.

[Antoninus]

Well, the inhabitants of the Flaklands want to belong to Great Britain, it's completly irrelevant if the distance is 7 or 7000 miles. What else do we need to judge who was right or wrong in this conflict?

[*DZR*Chimanov]

Your point has no point Antoninus; such a deep conflict can not be simplified as you do.
The inhabitants of Islas Malvinas are related to those who invaded it during the 1800's; be sure that if they were the grandsons of Agentinians, then they wouldn´t like to "belong" to England; dont you think?

Your comment, im sorry to say, its really naive.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

As I said, one-sided, by the look of things.

I am sure there was an implied in your post, it's just that it's not particularly funny if your country was involved, and the "sim" is mainly taking the view from the enemy propaganda.

I know you can fly for the axis in il2, but I've tried it, and I don't like it, this would be the same for me.

Well, there was an implied wink in my post, but still - it's a long time ago, and the politicians that started the war are long gone. If we cannot forget the enemy soldiers that just did their job after 25 years (Falklands) or almost 70 years ago (WWII) - then I guess there will never be peace on earth? The pilots did not start the war, and I have no problem simulating the war from a german pilots perspective even though a strafing 109 killed a number of relatives and was inches from killing my mother. The 109 is still one of my favorite planes in IL2.

I really do respect that others feel a different way, but thats my take on it...

/Mazex

[Antoninus]

Originally Posted by *DZR*Chimanov

Your point has no point Antoninus; such a deep conflict can not be simplified as you do.
The inhabitants of Islas Malvinas are related to those who invaded it during the 1800's; be sure that if they were the grandsons of Agentinians, then they wouldn´t like to "belong" to England; dont you think?

Your comment, im sorry to say, its really naive.

But there are no Argentinians living on the islands, nor any poor natives suppressed by "evil imperialists". There can't be lasting peace in the world if the opinion of the actual inhabitants of disputed territories does count less than who was right or wrong hundreds of years ago. Imagine how the world would like if all nations would start to reclaim territories that were once under their control. Especially since most have changed ownership countless times. Eternal war forever.

[tagTaken2]

One of the things I will be looking forward to about JT is being motivated to read about the conflict. Pretty much all I know now is http://www.toonhound.com/briggstpig.htm

I just wish they'd hurry up, like everyone else. I really thought we'd see 4-5 sim releases in 2008, including this one.

PS, Jets are not boring.

They are just more/less interesting. But older is more interesting.