Crusaders AD 2012

[baronWastelan]

By Kari Huus, msnbc.com

A recent decision by the Marine Corps to reinstate "Crusaders" as the name of its Fighter Attack Squadron 122 — replacing "Werewolves" — and adopting the red cross of the medieval Knights Templar was blasted as unconstitutional and willfully ignorant by a civil rights group Wednesday.

I don’t know that the Marine Corps could do anything more to fuel the cause of jihad," said Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a nonprofit organization that advocates church-state separation. "It will directly end up taking lives and maiming members of our military."
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VMFA-122 based out of Beaufort, S.C., used the Crusaders symbol from 1958 up to 2008, when Lt. Col. William Lieblein pointed out that imagery invoking the Christian conquest and colonization of Muslims during the Middle Ages was counterproductive to U.S. soldiers based across the Arab and Islamic world.

"The notion of being a crusader in that part of the world doesn't float," he said, ordering the change to "Werewolves," as reported by the Beaufort Gazette at the time.

Dozens of military members, including Marines in the affected squadron have contacted MRFF reporting that the name has been changed back, and that the symbols had already been painted on the vertical stabilizers of the F-18s.

Weinstein says that members of the military who contacted his group — mostly moderate Protestants and Catholics — felt that the decision was blatantly religious.

"They’re being told, 'the enemy gets to have Allah in their fight. We need to get our Lord and Savior back into our fight'," said Weinstein."

Lt. Cmdr. Wade Weigel, who currently heads the squadron, said he did not think the historic nickname was problematic, according to a report in the Beaufort Gazette on Monday.

"It's a way for our Marines to draw on the service of the Marines before them, and to make their own history under the same name," Weigel told the paper. "As the squadron prepared to celebrate its (70th anniversary), my intent was to return the squadron to the Crusader name since 50 of the squadron's 70 years were under that name. The name change is a reflection of our heritage."

Through the law firm Jones Day, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation on Wednesday sent a letter calling on top Navy and Marine Corps brass to reverse the decision, arguing that the use of Crusaders and the accompanying symbolism violate the Constitution’s separation of church and state, and threatening legal action if it is not changed.

The name change comes just as world media focuses on the trial of Anders Breivik, a Norwegian who admits to killing 77 people in a holy crusade against Islam and multiculturalism. Breivik brandished the Knights Templar symbols in his "manifesto" and YouTube video posted shortly before his bloody rampage.

[CWMV]

Shoot, I rolled out on patrol in Baghdad with this patch on my armor:


The armed forces is no place for this PC BS.
We are (formerly in my case) professional warriors, and as an infantryman I can trace my lineage as such back to these very knights.
tradition is a watchword in any armed forces, second only to mission accomplishment.
I say Kudos to the jar heads for this. I can only speak for the US, but we need to make up our minds about what we want from our armed forces. Do we want them to be well oiled, highly motivated, dedicated hard-core killing machines focused on accomplishing the mission at hand-or rubber bullet toting "peace keeper" cop wann-be's.

[baronWastelan]

Wow, I had no idea the term "jar heads' was still in use

Always a treat to hear from the Infantry. Hopefully this will be a topic where warriors of all nations and creeds can post freely.

[CWMV]

Originally Posted by baronWastelan

Wow, I had no idea the term "jar heads' was still in use

Always a treat to hear from the Infantry. Hopefully this will be a topic where warriors of all nations and creeds can post freely.

Oh ya! Actually its the nicest way I can think to refer to marines...

+1 on the rest of that too.

[Igo kyu]

The crusades were a Christian jihad, no more, no less.

[Artist]

CWMV, AndyJWest,

you're not discussing the same matter.

AndyJWest: CWMV is right when it comes down to fighting.
CWMV: Andy is correct when your getting into conflict between your oath and a government turned not only immoral but evil (i.e. in my country between 1933 and 1945 - heartfelt thanks to your ancestors for rescuing us from it, btw.): What do you do when you're ordered to commit atrocities (like German soldiers were then)?

Artist

[AndyJWest]

"Do we want them to be well oiled, highly motivated, dedicated hard-core killing machines..." Nope. Anyone who dumps their morality when putting on the uniform of a soldier is unfit to serve. (And before you ask, no I haven't - but I've seen the results on those who do, and what it does to them, never mind what it does to the enemy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1758301.stm)

As for claiming to trace your lineage back to Crusaders, yeah, right...

[WTE_Galway]

Actually the The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon, more commonly known as the Templars, are an interesting choice as ...

1) they were declared heretical in France and officially disbanded by the church in 1312. They were not exactly exalted heroes of Christendom towards the end.

2) unlike the Hospitallers, who left a humanitarian legacy in the form of St John's ambulance, the Templars were the worlds first corporate bankers, and the first to use control of money to manipulate politics ... which led to their eventual downfall.


To be honest the people who can truly trace their lineage back to the Knights Templar are not the American Marine Corp, it is Goldman Sachs.

[AndyJWest]

Yup. What does history tell us about the Crusades? A series of ridiculous military adventures with no clear goal, no prior understanding of the 'enemy', and no obvious motivation other than as a distraction from domestic problems? You guessed it...

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Yup. What does history tell us about the Crusades? A series of ridiculous military adventures with no clear goal, no prior understanding of the 'enemy', and no obvious motivation other than as a distraction from domestic problems? You guessed it...

Actually the crusades were more of a genocide type battle on both sides. To groups of delusional people worshiping space gods who think theres is best.