Democracy 101 (are we brainwashed automats?)

[MadBlaster]

Chomsky is a sharp guy. His model, too high level, too simple. Sir, no faith in the individual? In my experience, the individual doesn’t live at the high level he speaks. Instead, Chomsky reduces him collectively to either a teacher or a dumbass? Wtf. I would argue, the individual has the freedom to turn the tv/propaganda “off”. The individual has the freedom to ignore the propaganda or persue his/her own agenda or enjoy the propaganda of the “masses” as a pastime, hobby or even promote it with pleasure. The individual has the freedom to move, to buy or not to buy, to agree, or tell the world to go to hell. Or, the individual can sit around all day and worry if the sun will rise tomorrow because of the unmitigated disaster, Obama, spending some x-trillion dollars of future generations money in three years and more than all other presidents combined in the nations history! I do not wake up each day and ask myself, am I an 80% percent or 20% or 99%? Instead, I read a book on compiler theory. This, Chomsky’s greater contribution to my world. The USA will survive because nothing is more important than freedom, even when your broke. And we know from history, the individual will die to save it. Common sense always takes hold eventually. I would say, don’t waste your time on someone elses agenda unless you choose to and ask yourself why you do it. I think most people do that, though not explicitly. More so, just natural human behaviors. Chomsky’s model... is it propaganda??? Or is Chomsky himself a victim of propaganda??? Could be. Life is too short for me to worry about that. He is a sharp guy though and I found the vid worthy of my time to write some of my own propaganda on the internet.

[BadAim]

I'd like to agree with you, Blaster. Unfortunately for me I'm just too jaded. I believe that self government is right and good to the core of my soul, and that it is the only way to go. I also believe that the average person would just as soon be a slave if his cage is nicely appointed. This is why we have politicians and social engineers; they are more than happy to be the builders of gilded cages, so long as they get a cut of the profit.

Blech. This discussion leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This is why I stopped watching or listening to news of all kinds for the most part. It's too freaking painful. It's like watching the butcher lead the sheep away while the shepherd weeps.

[MadBlaster]

Ha. I woke up this morning with this on my brain.

It’s a paradox BadAim. Chomsky is a paradox. On the one hand, he comes up with the concept of a universal grammer, implying that human beings are hard-wired to learn. On the other, he implies you are a dumb-ass unless you are taught by a formally educated person. I accept the former and reject the latter.

If I iterate to a baby over and over, “red” while pointing to a red ball, what have I taught the baby? Is the baby no longer a dumb-ass with respect to “red”. I submit that I can not know. I can only speculate that the baby understands “red” as I understand “red”. But I am not the baby. I can test the baby, but still, only the baby really knows how he/she has conceptualized “red”. Maybe I have inadvertently planted the seed for the the baby to grown up and be a communist hope and changer. Or maybe this was my intent all along? Hello elite mentality. No. Drawing a line between the supposed dumb-asses and the teachers is a futile excercise. It’s a relative line that requires context to mean anything at all and even then, subject to one’s interpretation. If I cut myself and apply a bandaid, am I not now a doctor? In my mind, I am a brilliant doctor and that is all that matters to me at that point in time. Just as we are hardwired to formulate our own opinions of “red”. Our inate ability to use our senses, to take in data, analyze it, formulate, reflect, and make a choice about “red” and, if necessary, revisit our decision in the future. Or, simply not worry about it and throw it out as garbage. Did the baby throw out my interpretation of “red” as garbage??? Maybe the baby is color blind. On a broader scale, this is why we have elections in America. To revisit our past decisions. The 80% human beings are not dumb-ass automatons that must rely on and support the 20% “formally educated” class to be the interpreter. The ability to learn is inate. The desire to learn...inspiration comes in many forms. Teachers can choose to provide inspiration or indoctrination. It’s up to the individual to interpret the meaning and the individual can change his/her mind whenever they feel like it.

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by BadAim

I'd like to agree with you, Blaster. Unfortunately for me I'm just too jaded. I believe that self government is right and good to the core of my soul, and that it is the only way to go. I also believe that the average person would just as soon be a slave if his cage is nicely appointed. This is why we have politicians and social engineers; they are more than happy to be the builders of gilded cages, so long as they get a cut of the profit.

Blech. This discussion leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This is why I stopped watching or listening to news of all kinds for the most part. It's too freaking painful. It's like watching the butcher lead the sheep away while the shepherd weeps.

"There was once a nanny-goat who said,
In my cradle someone sang to me:
"A strong man is coming.
He will set you free!"

The ox looked at her askance.
Then turning to the pig
He said,
"That will be the butcher."

Bertolt Brecht

badaim someone here has a quote in there sig from Thomas Jefferson that says " Aman who reads othing at all is more educated than the man who reads the newspaper"

S!

[BadAim]

Lol, oddball. I agree fully. Tom is an old friend of mine, and definitely on my short list for meeting on the other side. I like the poem too, I guess that makes me the ox?

I have little faith in education as well, Blaster. No one is ever going to learn anything they don't want to. I guess that was my point. I don't really believe that the majority of people are stupid, but that they are willfully ignorant; they just don't care enough about anything to be bothered learning about it. Either way, education can't fix the problem, I mean you can't make someone care, and you can't raise their IQ. I guess that's why our education system has turned to indoctrination, it's probably easier to make all the fools think the way you want them to, rather than teach them to think for themselves.

There's the bad taste again.......

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by BadAim

I guess that's why our education system has turned to indoctrination, it's probably easier to make all the fools think the way you want them to, rather than teach them to think for themselves.

There's the bad taste again.......

The US is generally seen as a modern liberal state.

Liberal state theory virtually requires indoctrination of potential citizens for them to qualify as full members of a liberal state. Its only once indoctrination is deemed complete at say 18 years of age that you get full rights in a liberal state. Individuals where indoctrination has failed (criminals, the mentally ill, dissidents) are not granted full rights.

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

The US is generally seen as a modern liberal state.

Liberal state theory virtually requires indoctrination of potential citizens for them to qualify as full members of a liberal state. Its only once indoctrination is deemed complete at say 18 years of age that you get full rights in a liberal state. Individuals where indoctrination has failed (criminals, the mentally ill, dissidents) are not granted full rights.

don't worry Gal it will all be different when I come to power ...we will have one leader one government one coun........CRAP! I knew I heard that some where before...and it didn't work then either...oh well back to the drawing board

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

don't worry Gal it will all be different when I come to power ...we will have one leader one government one coun........CRAP! I knew I heard that some where before...and it didn't work then either...oh well back to the drawing board

lol .. at heart I am a social anarchist.

I believe the only valid reason for having a government at all is so it can interfere with and control the Machiavellian manipulations of society and the economy that big business by its very nature will always indulge in

[He111]

ATM, Asian nations are growing fast under capitalist cruelty while western nations are collapsing into economic disaster through a welfare state mentality. So has democracy helped western nations ?? obviously not. The power of the voter to sell their vote for a handout is very powerful, that our elected aristocrats tamper with at their own peril!

.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by He111

ATM, Asian nations are growing fast under capitalist cruelty while western nations are collapsing into economic disaster through a welfare state mentality. So has democracy helped western nations ?? obviously not. The power of the voter to sell their vote for a handout is very powerful, that our elected aristocrats tamper with at their own peril!

.

There is of course a certain illogic to this.

In the west:
Big Business greed -> means economy collapses -> govt forced to hand out welfare

Conclusion:
Welfare caused the economic collapse, give big business a tax break