Thoughts ?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Sven

He says 55 second of FIREPOWER! If you hold down all the triggers in the 109E you indeed have 55 seconds of firepower, nobody said 55 seconds of cannon fire in this 6 minutes of video.

Quite true, but at no point does he say that the cannons had only 7 seconds of fire. He first states 55 seconds of machine gun fire, then shows us the difference in size between .303 and 20mm. This is misleading.

He confuses the two issues such that someone with little or no prior knowledge is left with a completely distorted opinion of the true state of affairs. As I said, this does nobody any favours and gives an impression of biased representation rather than fact.

[FFCW_Urizen]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

...bodies and berbequeing Bratwurst on the Normandy beaches as a wind down for their European tour...

We Bavarians prefer Weisswurst

[ATAG_Dutch]

Traditional English Pork Sausage from the butcher up the road for me.

With Black pudding, mushrooms and fried eggs.

[FFCW_Urizen]

I just googled Black Pudding, now i lost all appetite

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by FFCW_Urizen

I just googled Black Pudding, now i lost all appetite

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by FFCW_Urizen

I just googled Black Pudding, now i lost all appetite

infidel!!!! black pudding is the food of the gods.....that and biltong.......ooohhhh! I'm getting a meat-on

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

infidel!!!! black pudding is the food of the gods.....

I think you'll find that the universally recognized food of the gods is KFC.

[FFCW_Urizen]

Nah, me just hates dried blood in a sausage, biltong on the other hand sounds interesting

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by FFCW_Urizen

Nah, me just hates dried blood in a sausage, biltong on the other hand sounds interesting

actually I could recommend the 'king' of sausage which is the Boerewors

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

Yes I know, I'm a terribly dense person. I also forgot to mention that the synchronising gear on the cowl mounted guns of the 109 reduced the rate of fire to quite a bit less than the Brownings, thus reducing the weight of lead delivered per second even further. I have a feeling they also had a lower muzzle velocity, but not sure about that one. Sorry for being such a thicko.

right, let's do some maths together...

the .303 had a blistering 20 rounds per second, the synchronised MG17 shot 17, frankly not that much of a difference, especially cos the .303 bullet weight was around 10 grams and the 7.92 is 11.5 grams, but the MG/FF (in its AP format) had a poor 8 rounds per second, but was a blistering 117 grams with 3.5 grams of explosive.

Now let's look at the damage factors*: both the MG17 and .303 had an average damage factor of 10, while the MG/FF went from 90 of an AP to a staggering 206 of an HE. This is again for one round.

so (and again this is a theory that doesn't take external factors into account) 8 .303s would deliver at their convergence point 160 bullets in a second, for a total damage factor of 1600; 2 MG17 would deliver 32 bullets and a damage factor of 340; 2 MG/FF would deliver 16 rounds with a damage factor of 1440 (the HE would reach a blistering 3296).

So all in all we're there (unless we use HE), but in terms of efficiency per single round, it's quite obvious that one MG/FF round would cause enough damage, being the most efficient of the lot.

The Dowding spread was soon chucked out of the window, but has no relevance to Holland's blatant exaggeration of the 109's firepower.

How soon exactly?

I say again, 55 seconds of cannon fire? Is that a fact, or just propaganda? Not confusing anything here mate. Poppycock and balderdash Old Boy.

I believe he referred to total firepower, and in terms of destructive power the 7 secs of MG/FF were surely comparable to 55 secs of .303s.

'Charlatan - One falsely claiming a special knowledge or skill' - OED. Sound familiar?

Ah so you're implying I'm a charlatan? Funny that, we lot living on Planet Reality Check thought that the charlatans were you and your esteemed colleagues coming from Planet I Fill My Mouth With Nationalistic Ideas And Never Open A Book On The Subject, go figure


*for further info on damage factors, look here http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm