E-7? terrain color?

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by 99th_Flyby

I still have that book!

Great book huh?

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by Ballenato

I think you must double check your sources, at least dont get too much credit on those fantastic Caidin texts.

From "Bf109 Recognition manual" - Marco Fernandez Sommerau:

"From the E7 to the last K4s, all Bf could carry auxiliary fuel tanks externally. These were suspended from a carrier rack under the belly. The type of belly rack changed very little between the E and the last K.
The original ALUMINIUM drop-tank selected for the 109 was a Junkers design of 295 litres capacity. Other types of tank soon appeared, most being similar in apparience but with a flattened botton in order to give adequate ground clearance. At the end of the war an "economy" steel version (type 8-4559 E1) appeared but saw limited use as it was less resilient than earlier tanks and imposed some limitations - aerobatics and sudden manoeuvres were not advised with it attached, nor were reough field landings recomended. Areinforced steel tak was subsequently adopted."

regards

I have a bit of a problem with your " source" buddy. The problem I have is that if you and the author are saying a real usable nonleaking droptank of metal construction was available to the luftwaffe during the battle of britain the germans would have absolutely totally used it! Many many german planes landed in the channel out of fuel or crash landed on the beach because of a lack of fuel. Also there is the problem of the germans always having to cut short their escort missions to bolt home because of a lack of fuel.

I have also just found another confirming source for this in "THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN" by Richard Townsend Bickers. A very excellent source for BOB information.. A quote from the book..

" The Jagdflieger were aware that their BF 109 E's possessed sufficient endurance for a mere 20 minutes actual combat over Britain and that London represented the effective limit of their tactical radius. This embarrassing limitation had been foreseen and a jettisonable 66 Imp gal (300 liter) fuel tank had been developed and, in fact, manufactured in some numbers. However, produced from molded plywood, it was found to leak seriously after comparatively short exposure to the elements and its incendiary proclivity resulted in its rejection by BF 109E units."

I have seen this mentioned in a few other places before also. My source is confirmed I believe now. Apparently Marco Fernandez Sommerau is quite inaccurate here if he is implying in some way that there was a usable metal fuel tank for the Me-109 during the Battle of Britain buddy.


well actually he isn't so much inaccurate from your quote as I believe he actually means the late end E7 model that came out at the very end of the conflict with the new metal tank in line 66 gallon tear drop belly tank. He is apparently not even aware of the earlier plywood tank though..

cheer up though. I apparently was wrong about the molded paper tank. It was actually molded plywood!

ME-109 by Martin Caidin is an excellent book btw, you might want to get a copy. He has always turned out to be right on everything about the 109 that I have ever read about it..

regards SV

[Ballenato]

Im aware of that, again, biased concept of LW. No primary document sources have found about "plywood" drop tanks, so if you have something that can convinced me, in ready to see that.

And about Caidin's book, i own a copy. Is deeper in my shelves.

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by Ballenato

Im aware of that, again, biased concept of LW. No primary document sources have found about "plywood" drop tanks, so if you have something that can convinced me, in ready to see that.

And about Caidin's book, i own a copy. Is deeper in my shelves.

Primary sources now? Now we want "primary sources" too huh?

The other book I quoted is a pretty good darn source IMO. Why don't you prove to me that the plywood tank never existed instead.

Something tells me Caidin isn't one of your favorite authors..

[Ballenato]

Dont gonna get in a twisted discussion. Im telling ya that i never seen any refs on those, so clammed paper/plywood, drop tanks... im telling ya that you show me anythig that prove use of that kind of drop tanks, thats what i call primary sources, not quotes from a book.
I can not prove you that were not used. Because i dont have any evidence of the use. But you states that it were used, im only asking about any clue.

take it easy, m8

PD: And btw, im never said that in BOB were used drop tanks, just that the drop tanks were of alumminium.

[stalkervision]

[quote="Ballenato"]Dont gonna get in a twisted discussion. Im telling ya that i never seen any refs on those, so clammed paper/plywood, drop tanks... im telling ya that you show me anythig that prove use of that kind of drop tanks, thats what i call primary sources, not quotes from a book.
I can not prove you that were not used. Because i dont have any evidence of the use. But you states that it were used, im only asking about any clue.

> The book I quoted the passage from is by an excellent aviation historical author. I see no reason for him to make things up and in fact given his statement it appears he was quoting from a primary source. Maybe you should endeavor to find your primary source threw him. I have no reason to doubt him because I have seen this mentioned many times before by different authors also.

[SG1_Gunkan]

Originally Posted by Ballenato

Because i dont have any evidence of the use. But you states that it were used, im only asking about any clue.

+1

[JG53Frankyboy]

according to Jochen Priens "History of JG53, Vol.1" at least JG53 received its first Bf109E-7s in October 1940.
And that the JG53 used 300liter Droptanks first in November 1940 in combat action.

Seeing that the Italians are modelled in SoW:BoB - who also apperead very late , end of October was their first combat mission http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco_bob.htm - a Bf109E-7 would fit in the timeframe !

BUT, my guess is , we will not see so much variants of one plane anymore - as in the IL2 series.
i expect ONE Bf109E version in SoW:BoB.
if it will be a -4 or -3 (only depends wich kind of MG-FF Maddox will choose) , i don't know.
and i expect also the -/B armament option (bombs) - to simulate the fighterbomber raids.

[stalkervision]

Drop tanks were used in the Spanish civil war by the condor legion and they worked out quite well. The german's were well aware of how to retrofit planes to carry them. The e-4 even had a center line bomb rack release fitted in the middle of BOB. I have also studied the system used by the german's for their drop tanks. It is quite simple efficient and ingenious. I see no other limiting factor here to the use of a drop tank during bob except that the original drop tank design for the 109 was faulty IMO.

I know plywood/paper materials were used on some p-51 drop tanks due to either wanting to save metal resources or not to give the enemy free useful aluminum metal materials. The german's may have designed them this way originally for just the same reason but came up with a faulty design. Our "paper" drop tanks worked quite well from what I know of them..

[Ballenato]

Drop tanks were used in the Spanish civil war by the condor legion and they worked out quite well.

Sorry? All that you can see with drop tanks, maybe, are post war 109 "nacionalistas". But for sure drop tanks never were used in SCW. Im spaniard and have quite near this thread. Only two
German aircraft in Spain used drop tanks, the Heinkel 51 and the Henschel
123. Anyway ill check my files again

The e-4 even had a center line bomb rack release fitted in the middle of BOB

As you "know", nothing to do with fuel rack system. Those are different systems.

I have also studied the system used by the german's for their drop tanks. It is quite simple efficient and ingenious.

So, you know what modifications were need to use it?
The factory simply ran a fuel pipe thru the cockpit floor, coming up on the right side corner, behind the seat. The pipe ran along under the edge of the canopy to a auxiliary fuel contents indicator, then thru the
instrument panel and firewall to the engine. Normal procedure was to start the engine with the fuel coming from the drop tank, then as the fuel
got low, to switch to the main tank, and jetison the drop tank.

Dont take it personal Stalker, im learnig, hope youll doing too.